Any way to change the sensitivity of the Y axis (to have a bigger area that doesn't not respond to movement)

[Echoes in the Attic]

I find the area of no expression (or initial value of 64) to be nearly impossible to maintain and the min and max are hit very quickly in either direction. It would be nice to have a little more area where timbre is at initial position but would still like to have the full range of Y axis (not lower limit, just less touchy). I nkow that you can lower the min and max timbre, but I'm sort of imagining a way that the timbre curve is exponential rather than linear, so that in the middle area it's easier to not trigger timbre expression when you don't want to. Of course this can sometimes be modified in the synth itself by changing the expression curve, but it would be really handy as a setting on the linnstrument itself because often times patches that are created for an MPE device like a roli seaboard, which has a longer Y axis range, have a much bigger effect from timbre expression and of course linnstrument reacts much more to smaller motions. So that's why a global setting could be great, so you don't have to change every preset that is designed for a roli device.
Thanks!

[Roger_Linn]

There’s only 17mm of physical Y-axis range. That’s the tradeoff if you want the advantages of the stringed-instrument note layout, including high note density, multiple instances of each pitch, isomorphism and more.

It seems you’re wanting to globally adapt LinnStrument’s Y-axis range to a Seaboard-focused synth, but that is exactly what the Y-axis range limits do.

You mentioned a possible exponential response, but I suspect you’d find that the front and back edges would then be too sensitive.

I noticed one thing you wrote, in which you defined a Y-axis value of 64 (midpoint) as “no expression”. My intended use of Y-axis in LinnStrument is not to define any position as ”no expression” like a mod wheel’s rear position defines “no modulation”, but rather to vary the timbre within a continuous tonal range, such as bow position, wind embouchure, pulse width modulation, oscillator sync level, etc., in which all parts of the range are legitimate tonal choices that provide timbral variation in performance. I think it may initially feel familiar to use LinnStrument’s Y-axis like a mod wheel but ultimately it’s not very useful. I would say this is also true for instruments with longer Y-axis physical range like Seaboard or Continuum— you can’t reliably play the bottoms of the note regions to get “no expression”.

So it may be that a different control than Y-axis may be better suited to your specific musical goal. For example, you could use the Low Row as a long mod wheel.

I hope this is helpful.

[Tj Shredder]

I found that the control can be quite precise, if you bend the finger instead of sliding. I much prefer it over the long path of a Seabord...

[pdxindy]

I wouldn't want exponential, but just a little initial curve would be sweet!

[Echoes in the Attic]

There’s only 17mm of physical Y-axis range. That’s the tradeoff if you want the advantages of the stringed-instrument note layout, including high note density, multiple instances of each pitch, isomorphism and more.

It seems you’re wanting to globally adapt LinnStrument’s Y-axis range to a Seaboard-focused synth, but that is exactly what the Y-axis range limits do.

You mentioned a possible exponential response, but I suspect you’d find that the front and back edges would then be too sensitive.

I noticed one thing you wrote, in which you defined a Y-axis value of 64 (midpoint) as “no expression”. My intended use of Y-axis in LinnStrument is not to define any position as ”no expression” like a mod wheel’s rear position defines “no modulation”, but rather to vary the timbre within a continuous tonal range, such as bow position, wind embouchure, pulse width modulation, oscillator sync level, etc., in which all parts of the range are legitimate tonal choices that provide timbral variation in performance. I think it may initially feel familiar to use LinnStrument’s Y-axis like a mod wheel but ultimately it’s not very useful. I would say this is also true for instruments with longer Y-axis physical range like Seaboard or Continuum— you can’t reliably play the bottoms of the note regions to get “no expression”.

So it may be that a different control than Y-axis may be better suited to your specific musical goal. For example, you could use the Low Row as a long mod wheel.

I hope this is helpful.

Thanks I understand all of that and I don't mean to imply there is anything wrong with the way it works currently. And perhaps "no expression" isn't the right way to say it, but I just meant that on many 5D/mpe type patches the initial value of 64 for timbre is where no expression is applied to targets of timbre modulation. But yeah the short Y axis is for many patches very useful. I just thought it might be a worthwhile suggestion (or feature if I wasn't aware) for there to be some kind of lagged curve applied so that it could be easier to keep near the 64 value area. Even a slight Y axis lag applied globally could be useful. I'm not sure, just throwing out ideas.

[Roger_Linn]

The idea of a "dead zone" at the center is a valid idea, but in my initial design experiments it didn't work out very well. The problem is that the goal of such a dead zone is to be able to accurate play with a Y-axis value of 64, but even a dead zone of around 4-6 mm would be hard to reliably hit, and it would make the physical range outside of the dead zone much less useful. Early on, I came to the conclusion that the best use of Y-axis in LinnStrument is for subtle timbral variation like guitar pick position or bow position, etc., in which the entire range is musically useful and even random position creates desirable tonal variation, as it does for guitarists or violinists. But I also learned that if you want to control sound parameters other than subtle timbral changes, it's better to use a different control like the Low Row or CC Faders.

If you'd like to experiment with the dead zone idea, it's possible to write a MIDI script in many DAWs that will create such a dead zone. Maybe someone out there would write such a script for you? Then if you find that it works well for you, you could post a video demonstrating its merits.

[Echoes in the Attic]

Yeah come to think of it, I could probably create some kind of scaling function in bitwig where CC values are compressed closer to 64 from either direction. I'll have a look. Either way, it's certainly possible to make a scaling adjustment on a per preset basis. But I've suspected that I would come to a similar conclusion that the Y axis is better for more subtle modulation. For example many presets made for Equator or Cypher just have too much modulation on timbre making wild changes happen sort of by accident. However those bigger modulations could always be changed to mod wheel or even a global cc74 or something for crazier expression and the linnstruments current mode of limiting the y axis min and max would probably do the trick for keeping the individual note expression more subtle.

As you get to know them you realize just how different the linnstrument and the roli seaboard really are in practice (which is good of course).

[Roger_Linn]

I think that LinnStrument, Seaboard, Continuum and others all have their strengths and weaknesses for different playing styles, and are all valid human interfaces for music.

[John the Savage]

For the record, I've never found the LinnStrument's Y-axis to be difficult to manage, regardless of whether or not I'm using it as a mod-wheel or in relative mode. I seriously think it just comes down to good sound design, competent finger control (as is the case with any instrument), and one's grasp of how to set up the LinnStrument to achieve specific results. With the right synth, some careful tweaking of the mod parameters, realistic expectations, and A LOT of practice, just about anything is possible. At any rate, I think the initial complaint is something that falls squarely on the synth, not the LinnStrument.

Let's consider what it means to play the drums: i.e. a proficient player can hit the skins with a remarkable and respectable degree of accuracy, but there's no "dead zone" in the middle to serve as a tonal safety net. Therein lies the skill. Of course, you could sidestep this by using drum pads to trigger electronic sounds, but that would come at the expense of expressivity and realism. To that end, your typical keyboard MIDI controller already provides a can't-miss way to ensure timbral accuracy, but it doesn't really respond to the player's touch in a meaningful way. The LinnStrument, on the other hand, was designed to behave acoustically, which comes with the blessed, though somewhat lofty, responsibility of needing to be a better player.

Cheers!

[John the Savage]

*Edit: accidental post...

[mijiti]

"...the blessed, though somewhat lofty, responsibility of needing to be a better player." - I'm definitely feeling that since i decided to disable the pitch quantisation - when I play the cello now I sound properly like a beginner cellist

[John the Savage]

Haha... Ah, yes, the pursuit of perfect intonation is not a journey for the faint of heart. But take solace in the fact that if a cellist can do it, indeed so can a LinnStrumentalist (wink).

Cheers!

[BobDog]

I think John has a valid point here, in the end it all comes down to practise.

When I first got the linnstrument I was disappointed with the Y and Z axis, so I looked into it by actually looking at the data it produced under "test conditions", so not just trying to play but actually testing out the response by looking at the data while just concentrating on controlling it with one pad. I found that there was nothing wrong with the linnstrument but there was something wrong with what I was doing when I played it, I was being sloppy and inconsistent.

So improving technique is always going to help.

I haven't got equator but I do have cypher and many of the presets have quite extreme modulation on the Y axis. There is no way you could come up with an algorithm on the linnstrument to get around this, the idea of an exponential curve on the Y axis might make it easier not to make unintentional changes (the "dead" zone) but it would also make control of the modulation even harder as you would get a sudden acceleration of change.

For controlling synths I use a Kronos 88, A linnstrument and various midi guitars. All require different versions of the patch just for velocity, never mind all this new fangled stuff.

[Echoes in the Attic]

I haven't got equator but I do have cypher and many of the presets have quite extreme modulation on the Y axis. There is no way you could come up with an algorithm on the linnstrument to get around this, the idea of an exponential curve on the Y axis might make it easier not to make unintentional changes (the "dead" zone) but it would also make control of the modulation even harder as you would get a sudden acceleration of change.

Yeah I think I agree with you that an exponential curve would have too sudden a jump towards the end. However I think a nice thing would be a global lag. Some synths have this so you ca program it into patches, but lag could be very useful just to prevent sudden accidental Timbre expressions when you do have more extreme modulation on the patch, as is the case with most Roli synth patches.

After thinking about, that would be my request - a global y axis lag setting (on/off a lag time), rather than a global curve.

[Roger_Linn]

After thinking about, that would be my request - a global y axis lag setting (on/off a lag time), rather than a global curve.

I’m afraid that’s a feature that is better suited to be in the synth, not the controller, because it is related to specific sounds. Some synths already have adjustable lag functions, so you can try it out and learn how useful it is for you.