Do you use chord generator tools or similar plugins to create chords? Which ones?

Chords, scales, harmony, melody, etc.
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telecode
KVRian
803 posts since 24 Mar, 2015 from Toronto, Canada

Post Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:20 pm

jancivil wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:52 pm
why would you when the functionality is built within the tool you are using?

Asked and answered many times already. So that when you write a chord progression, you're doing it from your own idea. It is just a richer experience than what you're after. :shrug:
But keep waving your arms about as though we might miss the extent of you not getting it. :tu:
Thanks . All good advice. Best regards.
Just a keep on a goin' a forward, without a single ounce of fear

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datroof
KVRist
155 posts since 19 Sep, 2012

Re: Do you use chord generator tools or similar plugins to create chords? Which ones?

Post Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:07 pm

jancivil wrote:
Tue Jul 23, 2019 12:52 pm
But keep waving your arms about as though we might miss the extent of you not getting it. :tu:
Ouch! :)

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jancivil
KVRAF
18944 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Do you use chord generator tools or similar plugins to create chords? Which ones?

Post Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:11 pm

"why would you when the functionality is built within the tool you are using?"
Utterly daft.

Which functionality? There is in your guess as to functionality a single functionality where "the tool you are using" (undefined, one supposes they all serve this quest perfectly then) knows what the melody, or the bass line requires automatically? Relieving you from all thought and consideration. Harmony writing may well demand choices of bass which are not the root, for one thing. An understanding of "functionality" is required before you have any idea as to what you want. Even if you're going to just try and copy something. You don't even want to know what you want. What are you actually doing here?


Why would you even read and gather information, let alone knowledge? You wouldn't, apparently. Not a mere argument from ignorance, an argument for ignorance.

Choice of chord is an idea. Period, full stop, this is in the realm of an idea. Chances are vanishing "the tool you using" is some advanced AI which bores into your mind to sort the inchoate formations if there are any in order to form an idea for you. You're arguing that nobody cares anymore because this kind of software exists, against gaining basic_competence now.
You literally have no idea of the subject. And you have no shame about it. Astonishing even considering the source.

teacue
KVRian
544 posts since 22 Jun, 2003 from Germany

Re: Do you use chord generator tools or similar plugins to create chords? Which ones?

Post Fri Jul 26, 2019 12:00 am

jancivil wrote:
Fri Jul 12, 2019 6:51 am


Fantasy on a Theme of Satie
Great piece!
Thanks for sharing.
teacuemusic (Musicals)
youtube

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telecode
KVRian
803 posts since 24 Mar, 2015 from Toronto, Canada

Re: Do you use chord generator tools or similar plugins to create chords? Which ones?

Post Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:32 am

jancivil wrote:
Thu Jul 25, 2019 4:11 pm
"why would you when the functionality is built within the tool you are using?"
Utterly daft.

Which functionality? There is in your guess as to functionality a single functionality where "the tool you are using" (undefined, one supposes they all serve this quest perfectly then) knows what the melody, or the bass line requires automatically? Relieving you from all thought and consideration. Harmony writing may well demand choices of bass which are not the root, for one thing. An understanding of "functionality" is required before you have any idea as to what you want. Even if you're going to just try and copy something. You don't even want to know what you want. What are you actually doing here?


Why would you even read and gather information, let alone knowledge? You wouldn't, apparently. Not a mere argument from ignorance, an argument for ignorance.

Choice of chord is an idea. Period, full stop, this is in the realm of an idea. Chances are vanishing "the tool you using" is some advanced AI which bores into your mind to sort the inchoate formations if there are any in order to form an idea for you. You're arguing that nobody cares anymore because this kind of software exists, against gaining basic_competence now.
You literally have no idea of the subject. And you have no shame about it. Astonishing even considering the source.
I think you might be quoting me out of context. In that post, the point I was trying to make was, I was using MS Word as an example. You paid X amount of dollars for a software product that includes a lot of functionality. The MS Word product has a lot more features than just allowing you to type words, underline, bold and align. It includes a dictionary, thesaurus, and reference tools that save you time and effort. Whether you chose to work with Word and keep a thesaurus in printed book form by the side of your computer and keep scrolling to the end of the document to keep adding reference notes is totally up to you -- it's your time wasted, but if you use the built in tools, you will probably save a lot of time.

To bring the discussion back to modern music software such as fully featured DAWs and VST options, they include and there are a lot of tools and functionality out there than just the ability to press a record button and move tracks around -- you paid for some of that functionality and those tools, you would be a fool to not use them if they are available to you (I am referrijng to Cubase Chord tools). I paid for them and I used them because they are available and I think they give me a lot more options and ideas and there is nothing wrong with that IMO. Its just more options and ideas. That being said, I don't claim knowing music theory insidie out is bad. It doesn't hurt to know it, but it's not essential for some genres that may not really need that sort of thing.

I think a lot of this is centered around what kind of music you make and what kind of music you like to listen. Not all of it requires advanced musical mastery or orchestration skills and some of it just requires very good technical mastery of the tools and an exploratory mind. :tu:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DJS_aNGxHI
Just a keep on a goin' a forward, without a single ounce of fear

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jancivil
KVRAF
18944 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Do you use chord generator tools or similar plugins to create chords? Which ones?

Post Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:21 am

Even if we're just going to directly copy and paste an idea that exists, say Ice Cream Changes. You know what it is functionally in order to know; this is the honest way of doing things. I vi IV V | I. Tonic, tonic with a twist, subdominant, doninant. Root movement: down a 3rd, down a 3rd then the strong V I. It's good to know. If you're incurious about these things, you can't be arsed, what is it you find you're really doing?

I vi ii6/5 V I. ii6 is subdominant, in C the bass is C A F G | C. A little added color by a known device. But no, put all your trust in a program to replace knowing, that's the ticket.

Similarly, Pachelbel: I V vi iii IV I IV V I
Strong root movement of the falling 4th, up a step, falling fourth, up a step, strong upward 4th, strong V - I.
It works because of reasons. When people appropriate it and add their little bits or little changes to it, does it never occur to you lot that they (Aerosmith Crying) might know what they're doing? What they're about when they do.
This is not arcane, obscure or esoteric.
I'm promoting a normative; a basic, healthy value.

And you have zero interest in it. It's very saddening and frustrating.
It's like everything you've done here, though. Why not try and be actually aware?

datroof
KVRist
155 posts since 19 Sep, 2012

Re: Do you use chord generator tools or similar plugins to create chords? Which ones?

Post Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:38 am

telecode wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:32 am
I think a lot of this is centered around what kind of music you make and what kind of music you like to listen. Not all of it requires advanced musical mastery or orchestration skills and some of it just requires very good technical mastery of the tools and an exploratory mind.
Not only that, but if you're not really interested in the theory, then don't study it. You have to follow your own path. You shouldn't need anyone to tell you - if you are really interested in music theory, then you're already studying it because you're already motivated by that burning desire for knowledge. If not, then don't bother. I'm always happy to discuss the benefits of an education, but I'm not going to preach to anyone. Do your own thing.

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telecode
KVRian
803 posts since 24 Mar, 2015 from Toronto, Canada

Re: Do you use chord generator tools or similar plugins to create chords? Which ones?

Post Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:51 am

jancivil wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 6:21 am
And you have zero interest in it. It's very saddening and frustrating.
It's like everything you've done here, though. Why not try and be actually aware?
It's not really true I have "zero" interest it in. It's just that I didn't study composition, so am not really musically trained and for the things I did study, undergraduate level ethnomusicology, you just need rudimentary understanding of music theory and Western musical forms, as it's more about the study of culture and music than the technical aspects of the music itself. Also, these days I am getting more into modular so I tend to read more about electronic music and synths lately as I find it more interesting. ;-)

I got into this discussion thread in defense of computer based tools that help people make music. These people don't necessarily need to be aspiring musical theater directors or aspiring music teachers -- they may very well be regular joe shmo that just wants to make HipHop or EDM beats and I think it's perfectly okay for them to just use helper tools (chord helpers and the evil autotune!) and not bother reading books on music theory and orchestration. They make a totally different genre of music and have totally different goals. Their time is much better spent mastering DAWs and VSTs.
Just a keep on a goin' a forward, without a single ounce of fear

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telecode
KVRian
803 posts since 24 Mar, 2015 from Toronto, Canada

Re: Do you use chord generator tools or similar plugins to create chords? Which ones?

Post Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:53 am

datroof wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:38 am
telecode wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:32 am
I think a lot of this is centered around what kind of music you make and what kind of music you like to listen. Not all of it requires advanced musical mastery or orchestration skills and some of it just requires very good technical mastery of the tools and an exploratory mind.
Not only that, but if you're not really interested in the theory, then don't study it. You have to follow your own path. You shouldn't need anyone to tell you - if you are really interested in music theory, then you're already studying it because you're already motivated by that burning desire for knowledge. If not, then don't bother. I'm always happy to discuss the benefits of an education, but I'm not going to preach to anyone. Do your own thing.
Agreed. The OP started this thread asking does anyone use chord generator tools and which ones and I think she/he was unfairly attacked for not aspiring to be an Aaron Copland and that's totally dretch and drag of the posters that responded.
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Forgotten
KVRAF
2130 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: Do you use chord generator tools or similar plugins to create chords? Which ones?

Post Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:05 am

telecode wrote:The OP started this thread asking does anyone use chord generator tools and which ones and I think she/he was unfairly attacked for not aspiring to be an Aaron Copland and that's totally dretch and drag of the posters that responded.
Had the OP posted in any other forum I would agree. However, the OP posted it in the Music Theory forum, so it's inevitably going to engender discussion of why it's not conducive to learning, understanding or applying music theory.

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telecode
KVRian
803 posts since 24 Mar, 2015 from Toronto, Canada

Re: Do you use chord generator tools or similar plugins to create chords? Which ones?

Post Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:11 am

Forgotten wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 8:05 am
telecode wrote:The OP started this thread asking does anyone use chord generator tools and which ones and I think she/he was unfairly attacked for not aspiring to be an Aaron Copland and that's totally dretch and drag of the posters that responded.
Had the OP posted in any other forum I would agree. However, the OP posted it in the Music Theory forum, so it's inevitably going to engender discussion of why it's not conducive to learning, understanding or applying music theory.
agreed. the dude should have posted it on the instruments section.
Just a keep on a goin' a forward, without a single ounce of fear

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datroof
KVRist
155 posts since 19 Sep, 2012

Re: Do you use chord generator tools or similar plugins to create chords? Which ones?

Post Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:38 am

telecode wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 7:53 am
Agreed. The OP started this thread asking does anyone use chord generator tools and which ones and I think she/he was unfairly attacked for not aspiring to be an Aaron Copland and that's totally dretch and drag of the posters that responded.
I'm trying not to take sides, because I agree with Jan for the most part. But one thing I've learned from parenting, about giving advice, is that if someone listens to even a single word you've said, you're doing good. You can lead a horse to water, etc.

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jancivil
KVRAF
18944 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Do you use chord generator tools or similar plugins to create chords? Which ones?

Post Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:58 am

It's about aspiring to musicianship, not to be the very greatest, to want to understand basics. Your sarcasm does nothing in the discussion. You're at what, page 4 of it and your excuse is you're merely answering the OP? Actually you tried to argue that no one reads, why bother when it's all done for you. Which again, is a statement of such ignorance of the matter it ought to be astonishing,

What you are about with this bullshit is basically dishonest, telecode.
You have to portray the side you take, the OP as a victim of attacks. It's not even the only thread by said OP which does exactly the same thing. So I said "here we go again"; and in answer to the OPs question, 'No, I have ideas, software doesn't know them, there's no help'. The poster before me said, 'I have but it's paint-by-numbers.' All unfair? These are attacks.
Not satisfied to say that, it's attacks for not aspiring to be a world-class composer. Just fabricate a straw man in extremis, right? Sure, say anything, you don't care, you have no shame.

So for YOU a pro-knowledge or Why not enjoy your independence and agency as though you're a conscious entity statement or sort of argument is unfair. Nice reveal! Choose this hill to die on.

This is a forum for understanding and conveyance of, it's right there in the name, Music Theory. It's not the What Is Your Favorite Delivery Mechanism in Avoidance of Obtaining Basic Music Theory forum.
There were at least three of these, the same question, concurrently at the time I first posted.
Last edited by jancivil on Sat Jul 27, 2019 11:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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jancivil
KVRAF
18944 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Do you use chord generator tools or similar plugins to create chords? Which ones?

Post Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:08 am

telecode wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:32 am
I think a lot of this is centered around what kind of music you make and what kind of music you like to listen. Not all of it requires advanced musical mastery or blah blah
If you're making chord progressions you would want understanding of it. I anticipated you posturing with that very line. I said it is not obscure, arcane, or esoteric. It's fundmentals. I went into basic, simple popular chord progressions but STILL you predictably take this tack.

"centered around" that - really? It didn't even come up, though. Not before I said "Ice Cream Changes" and the I V vi iii Pachelbel thing which seems like the whole basis of pop chord progression at times. Why does that work? Why do you not care? What do you feature you're even doing?

If you're going to deal in chords, have an idea of it; be real, be engaged. Deal in chords. Your statement is 'this is of no interest to me, having it all sorted in the app anyway' and beyond that you want the rest of the world to be your mirror: "No one reads..." Sure, and no one has a thought, just like you.
You're just being a fraud to be perfectly honest. Somebody has to call bullshit.

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telecode
KVRian
803 posts since 24 Mar, 2015 from Toronto, Canada

Re: Do you use chord generator tools or similar plugins to create chords? Which ones?

Post Fri Jul 26, 2019 2:36 pm

jancivil wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 10:08 am
telecode wrote:
Fri Jul 26, 2019 4:32 am
I think a lot of this is centered around what kind of music you make and what kind of music you like to listen. Not all of it requires advanced musical mastery or blah blah
If you're making chord progressions you would want understanding of it. I anticipated you posturing with that very line. I said it is not obscure, arcane, or esoteric. It's fundmentals. I went into basic, simple popular chord progressions but STILL you predictably take this tack.

"centered around" that - really? It didn't even come up, though. Not before I said "Ice Cream Changes" and the I V vi iii Pachelbel thing which seems like the whole basis of pop chord progression at times. Why does that work? Why do you not care? What do you feature you're even doing?

If you're going to deal in chords, have an idea of it; be real, be engaged. Deal in chords. Your statement is 'this is of no interest to me, having it all sorted in the app anyway' and beyond that you want the rest of the world to be your mirror: "No one reads..." Sure, and no one has a thought, just like you.
You're just being a fraud to be perfectly honest. Somebody has to call bullshit.
No one is posturing or a fraud. We just don't share the same views of the importance of music theory knowledge when it comes to making EDM or HipHop. I really don't think anyone aspiring to make beats for a Beyonce or a Drake will be well served by reading up on or taking music theory courses in classical or jazz music. It doesn't hurt, but it will really not help them connect with the type of artist or audience they are after. If they were to ask me, I would tell them stay well away from stuffy middle class music teachers and maybe take some courses where you better understand American gospel music or Caribbean Soca music so you get a better grasp of why the music works the way it does and what is it that those types of artists take from those genres and infuse into their releases that seems to connect with a wide audience with current North American audiences.

btw... I know nothing about Pachelbel. I am more a Corelli and Bach fan. ;-)
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