Loud is not always better: Spotify and volume settings!

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I made a short video showing how the "Loud" volume level setting in Spotify can degrade listening experience by severely reducing the dynamics of the music (sometimes completely crushing it).
I go through an example that show how the same song sounds on the "Normal" and "Loud" volume setting respectively:

Video link

Both versions of the song have been pulled directly from Spotify, and have been adjusted to have the same loudness level in the first part (before the mix gets busy) in order to give a valid comparison.

Note that not all songs will have this problem when on the “Loud” setting, but some probably will (as mine did). I suspect that this can be a problem with tracks that have been mastered to around -14 dB LUFS or lower as they can fall victim to Spotify's inbuilt limiter.

We can easily avoid the listening experience from going bad by changing to "Normal”, or even better "Quiet”, in Spotify's settings (as shown for the mac-version at the end of the video).

Background info

As a hobbyist electronic musician, I do all the work on my songs from the first idea to the finished release. Recently I experienced that Spotify made my new release sound like mush. My first thought was that this was a result of my limited skillset at mastering, but I had followed the guidelines that Spotify themselves give, so I was confused as to why this was happening. Then I found out that the Spotify app on my phone had changed it's volume settings after an update. Now there were several options in addition to volume normalization, where the user can opt for "Quiet", "Normal" or "Loud" volume. Mine had set itself to "Loud". I changed it to "Normal" and the sound of my release went back to how it was supposed to sound.

***Some technical details***

The original master-file that got distributed via Distrokid followed Spotify's guidelines (-14 dB integrated LUFS and -1,0 dB true peak) and had no audible distortion or inter-sample peaks when checking Logic Pro X's AURoundTRipAAC-plugin (it also runs a test to see if encoding to streaming formats will create inter-sample peaks/potential distortion).

What Spotify has to say about it's user adjustable loudness feature

From Spotify's FAQ:

1.
Playback levels are not adjusted when transcoding tracks. Tracks are delivered to the app with their original volume levels, and positive/negative gain compensation is only applied to a track while it’s playing. This gives users the option to adjust the Loudness Normalization if they want to.

Negative gain is applied to louder masters so the loudness level is at ca - 14 dB LUFS. This process only decreases the volume in comparison to the master; no additional distortion occurs.

Positive gain is applied to softer masters so that the loudness level is at ca - 14 dB LUFS. A limiter is also applied, set to engage at -1 dB (sample values), with a 5 ms attack time and a 100 ms decay time. This will prevent any distortion or clipping from soft but dynamic tracks.

The gain is constant throughout the whole track, and calculated to match our desired output loudness level.
Source: https://artists.spotify.com/faq/masteri ... is-it-used

2.
Premium users can choose between the following volume normalization levels in their app settings:

Loud - equalling ca -11 dB LUFS (+6 dB gain multiplied to ReplayGain)
Normal (default) - equalling ca -14 dB LUFS (+3 dB gain multiplied to ReplayGain)
Quiet - equalling ca - 23 dB LUFS (-5 dB gain multiplied to ReplayGain)

This is to compensate for where playback isn’t loud enough (e.g. in a noisy environment) or dynamic enough (e.g. in a quiet environment).
Source: https://artists.spotify.com/faq/masteri ... f-my-music

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Interesting comparison, thanks for the effort.

Unfortunately, Spotify's "loudness" settings are set by the user; the artist on Spotify has no control over that, short of putting something like "TURN DOWN SPOTIFY'S 'LOUDNESS' SETTING, YOU FOOL!" in their "artist info" area. ;)

Your track sounded pretty good too--without Spotify's "help", that is. The vocal pad was a nice touch.

Steve
Here's some of my stuff: https://soundcloud.com/shadowsoflife. If you hear something you like, I'm looking for collaborators.

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planetearth wrote: Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:28 pm Interesting comparison, thanks for the effort.

Unfortunately, Spotify's "loudness" settings are set by the user; the artist on Spotify has no control over that, short of putting something like "TURN DOWN SPOTIFY'S 'LOUDNESS' SETTING, YOU FOOL!" in their "artist info" area. ;)

Your track sounded pretty good too--without Spotify's "help", that is. The vocal pad was a nice touch.

Steve
Yes, we are helpless to do anything about it on Spotify, but I've starting to shout already :lol:

The weird thing is that Spotify is touted as ending the whole loudness war with their introduction of loudness normalization. But then they introduce a limiter in their volume setting which goes against that completely. Why not just let people increase the volume on their device? It doesn't make any sense.. Hopefully the default setting is "Normal", not "Loud" as suddenly was the setting for me after the update.

Cool that you liked it :tu: I have a thing for vocal pads with epic undertones. They creep their way into most of my tracks :)

Tor

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Torden wrote: Sat Aug 10, 2019 11:38 pm
planetearth wrote: Sat Aug 10, 2019 10:28 pm Interesting comparison, thanks for the effort.

Unfortunately, Spotify's "loudness" settings are set by the user; the artist on Spotify has no control over that, short of putting something like "TURN DOWN SPOTIFY'S 'LOUDNESS' SETTING, YOU FOOL!" in their "artist info" area. ;)

Your track sounded pretty good too--without Spotify's "help", that is. The vocal pad was a nice touch.

Steve
Yes, we are helpless to do anything about it on Spotify, but I've starting to shout already :lol:

The weird thing is that Spotify is touted as ending the whole loudness war with their introduction of loudness normalization. But then they introduce a limiter in their volume setting which goes against that completely. Why not just let people increase the volume on their device? It doesn't make any sense.. Hopefully the default setting is "Normal", not "Loud" as suddenly was the setting for me after the update.

Cool that you liked it :tu: I have a thing for vocal pads with epic undertones. They creep their way into most of my tracks :)

Tor
I've always had "audio normalization" off on the app, so I've never had to deal with an update making changes. ;)

Steve
Here's some of my stuff: https://soundcloud.com/shadowsoflife. If you hear something you like, I'm looking for collaborators.

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Mp3 mixdowns also handle headroom badly, so maybe a softer ~dynamic mixdown is the best?

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Skupje wrote: Sun Aug 11, 2019 1:48 pm Mp3 mixdowns also handle headroom badly, so maybe a softer ~dynamic mixdown is the best?
I did check how conversion to mp3 and other compressed formats would translate via Logic Pro X's inbuilt AURoundTRipAAC-plugin, and it showed it should be fine even for 64 kbps streams. Assuming that plugin is accurate that is.

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Clould be Logic handles it right? It seems there is a 6 or 3 db boost through a limiter on Spotify, quite a lot of gain. Can't be good for your music.. Thanks for the insight,

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Skupje wrote: Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:28 pm Clould be Logic handles it right? It seems there is a 6 or 3 db boost through a limiter on Spotify, quite a lot of gain. Can't be good for your music..
I think Logic handles it right and this is about the limiter. Everything points to it.
Skupje wrote: Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:28 pm Thanks for the insight,
You're welcome! :)

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toine6 wrote: Sun Aug 11, 2019 6:00 pm https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4xgx4k83zzc
Nice one! :lol:

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Thanks for the insight.
I fear this could end up with people starting to submit their tracks at -11 LUFS integrated (instead of the recommended -14 LUFS) so they could at least have control over the limiting process themselves and not rely on Spotify's one when the 'Loud' setting is engaged.

Agreed, it seems to totally go against the 'end the loudness war' thing, stupid move by Spotify imo. :shrug:
But then again, I suspect the reason they have introduced this setting is users complaining 'it's not loud enough' so not sure what to do either...

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No_Use wrote: Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:34 pm Thanks for the insight.
I fear this could end up with people starting to submit their tracks at -11 LUFS integrated (instead of the recommended -14 LUFS) so they could at least have control over the limiting process themselves and not rely on Spotify's one when the 'Loud' setting is engaged.

Agreed, it seems to totally go against the 'end the loudness war' thing, stupid move by Spotify imo. :shrug:
But then again, I suspect the reason they have introduced this setting is users complaining 'it's not loud enough' so not sure what to do either...
Yes, I think you are right to predict the -11 dB integrated LUFS as the new target. I was thinking I had to do that in future releases. Interestingly, in a facebook group I'm a member of this video was recently posted to point out that the loudness war is still very much alive, even though -14 dB has been flung around online as what one should aim for.

Ian Shepherd wrote an article a couple of years ago about LUFS target levels. He advised that it wasn't -14 dB LUFS integrated that was important, but to master no louder than -9 LUFS short-term at the loudest moments, with True Peaks no higher than -1. But he didn't take into account the new user options for loudness as they weren't implemented then.

Like you said, there is no easy fix when this is probably the result of user feedback. Spotify is in a tough market and probably do what they can to not lose subscribers to Apple Music and others.

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No_Use wrote: Sun Aug 11, 2019 8:34 pm Thanks for the insight.
I fear this could end up with people starting to submit their tracks at -11 LUFS integrated (instead of the recommended -14 LUFS) so they could at least have control over the limiting process themselves and not rely on Spotify's one when the 'Loud' setting is engaged.

Agreed, it seems to totally go against the 'end the loudness war' thing, stupid move by Spotify imo. :shrug:
But then again, I suspect the reason they have introduced this setting is users complaining 'it's not loud enough' so not sure what to do either...
Well, if you upload something at -11 LUFS and Spotify employs "negative gain" (read: lowers the damn level of your tracks) as they explicitly state they'll do, then you'll end up with a track that may still sound quieter than others--even if the idiot with the earbuds in his ear has the app set to "Loud" normalization.

Admittedly, it's a bit less likely that a "normalized" track will sound quieter, but Spotify will definitely lower the level of your track before anyone hears it, so those who have Spotify set to "Quiet" or "Normal"--or have normalization off entirely--will hear your track quieter than the rest.

It would probably be more prudent to determine which percentage of Spotify users enable normalization. If it's a small percentage, you may be shooting yourself in the foot in preparing your files just for them.

Steve
Here's some of my stuff: https://soundcloud.com/shadowsoflife. If you hear something you like, I'm looking for collaborators.

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planetearth wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:42 pm It would probably be more prudent to determine which percentage of Spotify users enable normalization. If it's a small percentage, you may be shooting yourself in the foot in preparing your files just for them.
I certainly hope it is set to "Normal" by default, and not "Loud" like it was after it updated itself on my phone.

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Torden wrote: Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:49 am
planetearth wrote: Mon Aug 12, 2019 10:42 pm It would probably be more prudent to determine which percentage of Spotify users enable normalization. If it's a small percentage, you may be shooting yourself in the foot in preparing your files just for them.
I certainly hope it is set to "Normal" by default, and not "Loud" like it was after it updated itself on my phone.
It is set to "Normal" by default; I don't know why it would have changed on your phone. But if the user is savvy enough to go into Spotify's settings, enable "normalization" and make additional changes, he or she may either leave it at "Normal" or drop it to "Quiet". My point is that mixing (or "mastering") for -11 LUFS may still make your songs sound quiet compared to the others, because Spotify will lower your level to at least -14 LUFS before the user even hears it. You'll lose your overall level and some of your dynamics, since your peaks will also be lowered.

Steve
Here's some of my stuff: https://soundcloud.com/shadowsoflife. If you hear something you like, I'm looking for collaborators.

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