IK Multimedia releases MODO DRUM

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
Examigan
KVRAF
4896 posts since 15 Sep, 2005 from East Coast of the USA

Post Sat Aug 17, 2019 2:15 pm

Ok, I just tried it here and can hear it as well. I did a gradual change from a velocity setting of 5 to 127 using the snare and you can hear definite changes in timbre. With most major sample libraries there are more velocity layers than that.

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Katzenberserker
KVRer
20 posts since 17 Sep, 2016

Re: IK Multimedia releases MODO DRUM

Post Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:41 pm

Going through various drum parts. Most of them have very clear timbre jumps, and not many.

I quote IK Marketing:
Infinite velocity layers for more human feel
I feel a bit betrayed...

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wagtunes
KVRAF
16910 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: IK Multimedia releases MODO DRUM

Post Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:45 pm

Katzenberserker wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:41 pm
Going through various drum parts. Most of them have very clear timbre jumps, and not many.

I quote IK Marketing:
Infinite velocity layers for more human feel
I feel a bit betrayed...
Let me ask you a question. How many velocity layers do you think a human drummer has under normal playing conditions? I'm not talking about some robot. I'm talking about a human drummer. You think a human drummer has infinite velocity layers, or for that matter even 127 which, BTW, is all you can have under the current MIDI standard, not counting 0 which produces no sound anyway.

Seriously folks, are we just looking for something to complain about?

dee3d
KVRer
6 posts since 2 Mar, 2015

Re: IK Multimedia releases MODO DRUM

Post Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:54 pm

I believe it's been mentioned by IK Multimedia that not only the cymbals are sampled but also some part of the drums too, most likely some of the attack. So with some very fast rolls where you can mostly hear the attack only and not the modeled body, you're back to samples and limited velocity layers. And from these posted examples looks like there aren't many of them, too. Just did a similar test with SD2 and the transition is much smoother there.

Examigan
KVRAF
4896 posts since 15 Sep, 2005 from East Coast of the USA

Re: IK Multimedia releases MODO DRUM

Post Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:57 pm

wagtunes wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:45 pm
Katzenberserker wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 3:41 pm
Going through various drum parts. Most of them have very clear timbre jumps, and not many.

I quote IK Marketing:
Infinite velocity layers for more human feel
I feel a bit betrayed...
Let me ask you a question. How many velocity layers do you think a human drummer has under normal playing conditions? I'm not talking about some robot. I'm talking about a human drummer. You think a human drummer has infinite velocity layers, or for that matter even 127 which, BTW, is all you can have under the current MIDI standard, not counting 0 which produces no sound anyway.

Seriously folks, are we just looking for something to complain about?
How many layers? Definitely more than 5-6. That's what I hear when I set it with a gradual ramp up from 5-127 in the velocity range. I was drummer for many years and I know I had a better range than that.

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Katzenberserker
KVRer
20 posts since 17 Sep, 2016

Re: IK Multimedia releases MODO DRUM

Post Sat Aug 17, 2019 4:40 pm

Don't get me wrong wagtunes, I'm not saying this instrument is unusable or you can't create some "natural" sounding parts with it. I'm also aware, that the 128 velocity layers that MIDI gives us are probably more dynamics than any drummer can produce deliberately.

I'm just discovering the limitations and compare them against the (obviously) unrealistic marketing claims. As there is no demo, it's valid to publicly question those claims.

For the velocity layers, it's fair to compare against regular sample libraries. The claim is "Loads faster and takes up less hard drive space". Well with more than 11 GB you can compare Modo Drums with EZ Drummer. Similar footprint with disc storage and guess what? The jumps in timbre due to velocity layers is pretty much the same, sometimes smoother, sometimes worse.

Which gets me to the next claim:
Infinite round-robins for unmatched realism
Ok. With regular drum libraries you get random phase cancellation, if you record two tracks with beats at the same velocity, when the same sample plays on both.
With MODO drums you don't get perfect cancellation, but still repeating patterns. Which I guess means that the parameters for whatever modeling they are using aren't that much randomized.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1D4ylbK ... sp=sharing

Even without being a nerdy Monk, you can hear two pitch patterns when you play just one track of repeating notes, especially toms.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1CE6Ok ... uEzI7ocFsm

As people from IK Multimedia are participating in the discussion: don't get me wrong, your product is still nice, with interesting options that we didn't have before. I guess that the people who build the product didn't write the marketing texts (and maybe don't even agree with some of the claims). I also acknowledge that this is the initial release and it's pretty good already (and stable so far). So please don't be upset about my technical analysis and pickyness and keep creating great products. :)

Allright, I'm going to make music again.

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wagtunes
KVRAF
16910 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: IK Multimedia releases MODO DRUM

Post Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:55 pm

Fair enough. FWIW, this is the first drum synth that has really got me inspired. It certainly sounds more realistic than anything I have prior. Of course I don't have drum products in the $400 range so I can't speak for how good they are. But this thing wipes the floor with EZ Drummer, IMO anyway.

benjamind
KVRian
1127 posts since 4 Aug, 2004 from Ain't tellin' ya...

Re: IK Multimedia releases MODO DRUM

Post Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:58 pm

If the realism that MODO DRUM and BASS offer are anything to go then I can only wonder how good the guitars will be once they are here. But so far I've only heard the demos. Haven't played anything myself so far.
Little Black Dog - 2008-Present

reggie1979
KVRian
1387 posts since 26 Nov, 2018

Re: IK Multimedia releases MODO DRUM

Post Sun Aug 18, 2019 4:57 pm

wagtunes wrote:
Sat Aug 17, 2019 6:55 pm
Fair enough. FWIW, this is the first drum synth that has really got me inspired. It certainly sounds more realistic than anything I have prior. Of course I don't have drum products in the $400 range so I can't speak for how good they are. But this thing wipes the floor with EZ Drummer, IMO anyway.
You may be right. I have Superior Drummer which is CRAZY flexible but leaves me flat when it comes to the sounds and grooves. I love SSD5, but I don't care for the interface.

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Peter - IK Multimedia
KVRAF
6627 posts since 20 Oct, 2009

Re: IK Multimedia releases MODO DRUM

Post Mon Aug 19, 2019 6:22 am

"Nobody would play it like this" followed by an example of what is felt to be unrealistic? You don't say... If you are having issues with the infinite round robin and other features that differentiate MODO DRUM from sampled libraries, I'd suggest contacting support directly at this point. I'm not surprised that, like any tool - musical or not, MODO DRUM will follow the old computer science saying "garbage in, garbage out".

The people who made the product wrote the documents (including a thorough competitive analysis) used for what the information we present on the web page which is factually correct as to what MODO DRUM has for features and what it offers. We've been doing this for over two decades, we have a system to avoid mismatching materials vs available features.
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musicdoc
KVRist
169 posts since 8 May, 2010 from US-Washington

Re: IK Multimedia releases MODO DRUM

Post Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:04 pm

Katzenberserker, thanks for your review. Sounds like hi hats only have tip, shank and open position sampled. Kind of limiting I’d say.

With the velocity, if you are hearing clear “layers” within the sound than that is clearly not a user issue but a programming one. Maybe for IK they meant infinite velocity volumes:)

Sure in context maybe all sounds good, but if you are promised infinite laters and get a 90’s 4-5 layer synth it kind of sucks.

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Peter - IK Multimedia
KVRAF
6627 posts since 20 Oct, 2009

Re: IK Multimedia releases MODO DRUM

Post Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:34 pm

musicdoc wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:04 pm
Sure in context maybe all sounds good, but if you are promised infinite laters and get a 90’s 4-5 layer synth it kind of sucks.
You didn't get a 4-5 layer synth. You got what we state on the tin. Check out the videos and the vast majority who are enjoying all the layers and round robin they get with (along with the customizability and other great features of) MODO DRUM.
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Peter - IK Multimedia
KVRAF
6627 posts since 20 Oct, 2009

Re: IK Multimedia releases MODO DRUM

Post Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:35 pm

benjamind wrote:
Sun Aug 18, 2019 3:58 pm
If the realism that MODO DRUM and BASS offer are anything to go then I can only wonder how good the guitars will be once they are here. But so far I've only heard the demos. Haven't played anything myself so far.
Thank you. I don't have information about MODO Guitar at this time though. Glad you are happy with what MODO DRUM offers, I'm sure anybody having any issues where they're not experiencing what they're supposed to be with MODO DRUM can have their issues resolved.
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Follow IK on Facebook for flash giveaways, exclusives, and more.
What you got just ain't interesting (or true).

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wagtunes
KVRAF
16910 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: IK Multimedia releases MODO DRUM

Post Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:41 pm

Peter - IK Multimedia wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:34 pm
musicdoc wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:04 pm
Sure in context maybe all sounds good, but if you are promised infinite laters and get a 90’s 4-5 layer synth it kind of sucks.
You didn't get a 4-5 layer synth. You got what we state on the tin. Check out the videos and the vast majority who are enjoying all the layers and round robin they get with (along with the customizability and other great features of) MODO DRUM.
Peter, I didn't read what it says on the tin (I never read that stuff) but if infinite layers were promised, that's not even possible as MIDI only has 128 different velocities. So at most, there can be 128 layers with one of them having no sound. Unless of course I'm not understanding what we're talking about here.

Having said all that, I'm happy with what MODO Drum gives me as no other drum set I own gives me infinite layers to compare it to.

Can somebody please point out to me where it says infinite layers on the specs page or wherever?

Examigan
KVRAF
4896 posts since 15 Sep, 2005 from East Coast of the USA

Re: IK Multimedia releases MODO DRUM

Post Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:49 pm

At the bottom of this page:
https://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/mododrum/

Unique drum player technique controls

Selectable hitting position
Swap stick and head types
Infinite velocity layers for more human feel
Infinite round-robins for unmatched realism
Last edited by Examigan on Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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