Live looping and Bitwig

[pinki]

So let's say you have a guitar track and a recorded loop playing in a clip, what next if you want to 'overdub'? Duplicate the track and record a new clip?
My problem is, I have many instruments going into Bitwig, in my basic setting there are 10 tracks connected to a mic, guitar or keyboard. So I fear starting a new track for every additional layer would make it very cramped and confusing.

To be clear when you say "track" do you mean arranger track? If so then I never use the arranger in Bitwig. Everything lives in clips. So your loop would be in a clip and your guitar track would be on another clip (in another [clip] track). But yes- if I want to add more guitar, I add another clip on another clip track with my guitar as input.
But I agree- with many instruments it could get unwieldy!

I suppose I'm using Bitwig more as a multi-track looping improvisational layering tool rather than a traditional looper...but it works splendidly.

[domtak]

@pinki / @brunomolteni

I've re-opened a thread I made a year ago - please pop over there and help me fathom out the Clip Launcher clicks. I've made 2 videos which demonstrate what I'm experiencing. I'd love to know how to fix this: viewtopic.php?f=259&t=515018

THX

[pinki]

domtak

I'm not back in my studio until next week but I'll see if I can find anything then.

[domtak]

no probs

[TVbene]

To be clear when you say "track" do you mean arranger track? If so then I never use the arranger in Bitwig. Everything lives in clips. So your loop would be in a clip and your guitar track would be on another clip (in another [clip] track). But yes- if I want to add more guitar, I add another clip on another clip track with my guitar as input.
But I agree- with many instruments it could get unwieldy!

I suppose I'm using Bitwig more as a multi-track looping improvisational layering tool rather than a traditional looper...but it works splendidly.

I guess my question was: do you prepare all the tracks that you think could be necessary later on, configure their input and effects beforehand? Or do you spontaneously add new tracks during a session and configure them or duplicate existing ones?

I'm also only using the Clip Launcher, when I say track I'm talking about the Bitwig tracks in which the clips are playing.
So that I'm not misunderstanding how tracks and clips work: if you want to hear two guitar loops you need two tracks and can only use one clip on each track because Bitwig would only playback one clip per track, am I right? That's where the Playtime plugin is more fun, you can start recording additional clips on a track and keep the existing ones playing.

So I made a short and very sloppy demonstation video. I just recorded two guitar loops on track 1 beforehand and then you can see how easy it is to layer 3 MIDI recordings on track 5, where I have put a piano VSTi:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DomZafMSfE0

[skarabee]

Thank TV bene for the Playtime video. Sort of thing that we can' do in Bitwig.

By the way, about sharing, some details about my configuration:
Core i5 Asus / 8Gb ram / win 10
Motu Ultralite Mk4: 1 mic, 1 preamped Bass, 1 Axe-FX for electric guitar.
Midi: Triton Taktile 49 (main keyboard+ 8 faders+ 16 pads+ some buttons)
MP100 USB-midi pedalboard (10 CCs or PC + 1 expression pedal)
sometimes I add Evolution Mk225 keyboard or Reloop Keypad, for additionnal midi.
All this setup runs fine with other DAWs, with an additionnal Roland TD V-Drum (midi via the Motu). All drivers and soft are up to date.
As you see, nothing fancy or too complicated, I have more stuff to add for a second performer (vocals, keyboards and acoustic guitar), but for now, just with this setup, I encountered multiples show-stoppers...

Apart for the Clip Launcher restrictions (1 clip playing per track, no audio overdub), there are some things I just can't work with: I spend a lot of time scripting my controllers with Moss's Flexi, but there is a big restriction: only one action/controller. Once the setup is fine, sometimes it stop working. From time to time, you are notified with "Flexi as crashed", but most of time, things just stop working, in a unpredictable way. Some robust plugs crashing at least once per session (EZ Drummer for example never let me down in other Daws).

I also tried other midi keyboards and controllers(M-Audio, Korg, Roland, Yamaha, Reloop Keypad, Evolution MK225, Akai LPD8), can't work for an hour without problems. IMHO, good for bedroom music, but not for live gigs as band looper/composer.

As I can't stand Live, I think it's time for me to test Playtime...

[daradei]

Very interesting topic, thanks for the OP! I’ll keep an eye on this because I love Bitwig and live looping is the way for me, wish it will have the same depth when it comes to live looping and arranging besides the clip matrix borrowed/inherited from Live. For now hoping for ALK to be released for ios soon, it’s on their roadmap and keeping my Live 10 Suite on the Dock because it’s still the best choice for now... especially with ClyphX

[daradei]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gqAczD7U2no

[wavedigit]

For those who are looking at using the arranger view for live looping, there's currently (still) a bug where the recorded automation doesn't get played back when it's supposed to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kE8iaFdS4B8

[TVbene]

I finally made a short video tour for my current setup, video is at the end! It would be so interesting to see more concepts and have some feedback. The project aims at lazy collaborative looping among friends, where every instrument can be looped in an instant.
I put my looper VSTs on effect tracks which gives me easy control over routing via sends.

I use a RME Fireface UC with a Core i5-8400, 32 GB RAM, Win 10. The system seems to be too slow for my current sample size, though.
I arranged my project in 8 audio and 8 MIDI tracks for easier navigation with my MIDI controllers:

audio tracks:
t1 & t2: mics
t3: electric guitar into Guitar Rig for FX and then Amplitube for the amp sims
t4: fretless electric guitar, external effects/amp sim (BOSS floor board)
t5: acoustic guitars (piezo PU), processed with an IR by 3sigma audio for more natural sounds
t6: bass guitar, from the direct out of my SWR bass amp
t7 & t8 empty for now

MIDI tracks:
t9: e-drums (MPS 850) into EZdrummer2
t10: Roli Seaboard into FXpansion Strobe/Cypher
t11: Roland stage piano (RD 700 SX) into Komplete Kontrol VST
t12: Komplete Kontrol A61 into Komplete Kontrol VST
t13: Audiomodern's Riffer VST into Kontakt VST for random/evolving arpeggios
t14, t15, t16 empty for now (looking into Audiomodern's new plugin Playbeat)

effect tracks:
S1: Maschine MK1 controlling Maschine2 VST, also used for looping
S2: Enso (Audio Damage) looper VST, great for overdubbing/frippertronics
S3: MXXX by melda
S4: empty for now

MIDI controllers:

Novation Launchpad Mini with this script: viewtopic.php?t=439866
- recording, playing, deleting Bitwig's clips
- muting/soloing/... tracks
- routing tracks to the loopers
- I added control over S3 and S4

Behringer X-Touch Mini, I watched Mossgraber's great API-Tutorial and made a script with the help of his examples:
https://github.com/git-moss/Bitwig-Cont ... -Tutorials
- track volume control with the rotary encoders, muting, selecting tracks, open plugin windows
- it has a custom mode where I can open the plugin windows on my effect tracks with one button click and I can change Enso's settings via the rotary switches

so here's the video: https://youtu.be/eHVoygoMuIs

[TVbene]

and keeping my Live 10 Suite on the Dock because it’s still the best choice for now... especially with ClyphX

Interesting. How do you use ClyphX for looping? I guess many things could be done with a controller script in Bitwig but it's very time-consuming.

[jaspertm]

I have made a script for live looping in bitwig :
viewtopic.php?f=268&t=534459

it's minimalistic but follow my workflow.
I hope it can be useful for other

[Gomjab]

I wonder if the 3.1 release will help. It lists the following in the release notes.

“ APC40 MKII controller script: using the Shift + Record/Session buttons toggles arranger recording and automation recording”

https://downloads-na.bitwig.com/beta/3. ... 1567184366

[TVbene]

With MSuperLooper MeldaProduction now has a new looper VST. For 19€ intro price and Melda's lifetime upgrades that sounds very interesting, I've been hoping for it for a while. And it already has support for MIDI controllers: https://youtu.be/x7e5wYYdwCA
I'm quite curious how this develops.

[misteraudio]

With MSuperLooper MeldaProduction now has a new looper VST. For 19€ intro price and Melda's lifetime upgrades that sounds very interesting, I've been hoping for it for a while. And it already has support for MIDI controllers.

I've played around in Bitwig with the new looper and it works well so far. Got it for 19€ currently. It's cool that tracks can be panned individually and the MIDI options are great as well.

Sadly like many other looper plugins it's missing time-stretching or repitching upon tempo change. Enso does repitch but I found it hard to match that with the Bitwigs stretch methods. It's maybe just a detail but changing speed within a looping session isn't possible with any of the looper plugins I've tried.

Hopefully Bitwig will come with a fully fledged looper device at some point (with audio overdub) and or dedicated blocks for the Grid. Or MSuperLooper implementing some form of this.