macOS Catalina : software notarization ... ?

DSP, Plug-in and Host development discussion.
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xhunaudio
KVRian
583 posts since 17 Feb, 2010

Post Tue Sep 10, 2019 1:19 am

With the advent of macOS Catalina, a "stronger" software notarization will be adopted.

My question is : is it valid just for APPS or the new notarization is strictly REQUIRED also for PLUGINS (VST2, VST3, AU) ?

Thanks for any hint !

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discoDSP
KVRAF
4342 posts since 18 Jul, 2002

Re: macOS Catalina : software notarization ... ?

Post Tue Sep 10, 2019 2:31 am

I opened a thread on this regard recently viewtopic.php?f=33&t=531177

AFAIK the requirement should apply to apps but I have read on JUCE forum it's also required for plugin files https://forum.juce.com/t/apple-gatekeep ... bles/29952

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xhunaudio
KVRian
583 posts since 17 Feb, 2010

Re: macOS Catalina : software notarization ... ?

Post Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:13 pm

Hi,

thank you so much for the info and for the thread link.

Before I say something offensive, I think I will keep my mouth closed about Apple and its *nonsense* policies of the last years. They completely lost their hold on what computing is.

People should stop calling "eccentric, charismatic visionary" someone who is simply insane. Sorry for the outburst.

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discoDSP
KVRAF
4342 posts since 18 Jul, 2002

Re: macOS Catalina : software notarization ... ?

Post Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:23 pm

I also find this notarization thing a bit nonsense.

Markus Krause
KVRist
84 posts since 2 Jul, 2018

Re: macOS Catalina : software notarization ... ?

Post Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:12 am

+1

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Zaphod (giancarlo)
KVRAF
2462 posts since 23 Jun, 2006

Re: macOS Catalina : software notarization ... ?

Post Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:21 am

following...

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Audiority
KVRian
846 posts since 15 Nov, 2005 from Italy

Re: macOS Catalina : software notarization ... ?

Post Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:58 am

I'm preparing to test both plugins and installers signing and notarization. It's not pretty clear what we have to do and what only needs to be signed or notarized. I watched a WWDC 2019 multi part video about Apple Notarization and it's not clear. What I understand is that debuggers will not attach on notarized applications. This means that DAW developers will have to provide "Dev" versions of their products, similar to what Avid does.

Here's the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=220plbQ4oGk

I see Apple using improved security as a way to force developers to pass through their App Store and I hardly believe that we will all be forced to do that in the near future, as soon as their new ARM based Macs will be available on the market.

My 2 cents,
Luca
Audiority
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fmr
KVRAF
8840 posts since 16 Mar, 2003 from Porto - Portugal

Re: macOS Catalina : software notarization ... ?

Post Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:03 am

Audiority wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:58 am
I see Apple using improved security as a way to force developers to pass through their App Store and I hardly believe that we will all be forced to do that in the near future, as soon as their new ARM based Macs will be available on the market.
Will this be a reality? If yes, will it be for ALL the computer line, or just for the low end laptops?
Fernando (FMR)

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Audiority
KVRian
846 posts since 15 Nov, 2005 from Italy

Re: macOS Catalina : software notarization ... ?

Post Wed Sep 11, 2019 4:05 am

I suppose it'll be for all the computer line excepts the Mac Pro, but it's a mere speculation based on how they behave in the past. But we'll see soon.. I remember they are expected for 2020.
Audiority
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mystran
KVRAF
5360 posts since 12 Feb, 2006 from Helsinki, Finland

Re: macOS Catalina : software notarization ... ?

Post Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:17 am

Audiority wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:58 am
This means that DAW developers will have to provide "Dev" versions of their products, similar to what Avid does.
So basically this means no more debugging in DAWs then.. :D
If you'd like Signaldust to return, please ask Katinka Tuisku to resign.

quikquak
KVRian
571 posts since 6 Aug, 2005 from England

Re: macOS Catalina : software notarization ... ?

Post Wed Sep 11, 2019 7:41 am

Apple: "Yeah, f**k developers, we'll do everything ourselves!"

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vortico
KVRist
293 posts since 19 Jul, 2008

Re: macOS Catalina : software notarization ... ?

Post Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:50 am

>I think I will keep my mouth closed...

There's no reason to stay silent. Customers/users need to know because they don't know, which is the only reason Apple can get along with it.
In Apple's viewpoint, it makes sense why they do this. 1) A big criticism of their OS is that malware exists, and locking down software by putting the burden on developers to jump through all these hoops is a zero-cost way for Apple to decrease malware. And 2) Apple wants that 30% App Store commission by making it harder for developers to offer software outside the App Store, and they want to make it harder for developers to compete with their in-house software packages.
In other words, Apple's business model no longer depends on third-party software, so why would they help developers to write software for their OS? In fact, in some cases third-party software is harmful to their business model.
VCV Rack open-source virtual modular synthesizer

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xhunaudio
KVRian
583 posts since 17 Feb, 2010

Re: macOS Catalina : software notarization ... ?

Post Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:07 am

Audiority wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 3:58 am
...as soon as their new ARM based Macs will be available on the market.
Well, for that specific scenario (CPU/hardware reset), together with the new SDK, I think Apple should provide all developers also a dedicated brick wall... :bang:

@vortico
the reason for which I prefer to keep my lips sealed is because things seem to procede this way, when it's about Apple (unfortunately) :
https://www.youtube.com/embed/FL7yD-0pq ... t=0&end=91

Seriously, current Apple strategy consists in preparing itself to quit from the workstation market. Since several years, they just want to sell iPhones and their Apps.

Any other company with this specific strategy would fail in a 2-3 years. Only the adoption of a more mature critical thinking (towards Apple) would change the things (maybe) - instead of the current "fanboys" general attitude.
Last edited by xhunaudio on Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:43 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Youlean
KVRist
327 posts since 11 May, 2016 from Serbia

Re: macOS Catalina : software notarization ... ?

Post Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:03 am

Apple doesn't care about developers anymore because the devs will do anything to be on their system. That's why they are removing support for OpenGL and doing other stuff too.

Removing the OpenGL support will be a significant cost for many companies since they will be needed to switch to Metal, but it will improve the general performance of the GUI on the macOS and its apps, so the end-user wins, like with the notarization.

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xhunaudio
KVRian
583 posts since 17 Feb, 2010

Re: macOS Catalina : software notarization ... ?

Post Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:10 am

Youlean wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:03 am
Removing the OpenGL support ...
One of the most insane moves ever, indeed. I can't believe it when I read that announcement, years ago... :shrug:

Their current strategy is trivially clear - but that simply won't pay on the long-term.

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