Roland Jupiter X and XM (new synths)

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lfm
KVRAF
5159 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Post Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:31 pm

jacqueslacouth wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:51 am
BONES wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:17 am
The difference is that Behringer don't sell anything that's really expensive but none of their products could hold a candle to these things.
The Neutron is not expensive but it has a brilliant sound. It gives me what I was looking for in my first round with a fully modular system and it more than holds its own amongst the competition.
Agree about Neutron and would throw in DeepMind as well.

But maybe BONES mean more like standing up to the legacy synths. I think Behringer K-2 is meant to be MS20 clone, not idea if it holds up.

Roland do great sounding stuff - but don't think I saw one that really was made to be creative, for real.
- Buy our cartridges
Roland says.

Simple things like preview any slot that you are to overwrite - no, before you start making you own sounds, you need to write down patches that you don't want to loose, or the ones you can overwrite. I had Korg, Nordleads and Behringer that do that nicely.

Exploring a new synth I go in all directions - and it takes many memory slots to save intermediate stuff. Then I start just changing oscillator waveforms or modulations etc.

I just find myself on the Nordlead 2X all the time - brilliant thought out units. And about to dig deeper in Behringer DM6 and all the crossmodulations it offers.

When you find a special quirky sound to use - it inspires to musical stuff too. Most factory patches are drowned in reverb - where anything sounds huge - so getting rid of that first is a start for those synths that have built in effects. And chorus has to go as well, since everything sounds phat with chorus. Original core sounds is what interest me. Then you can start adding effects.

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Orbit-50
KVRAF
2339 posts since 29 Jun, 2005 from La La Land

Re: Roland Jupiter X and XM (new synths)

Post Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:02 pm

jacqueslacouth wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:57 pm
Orbit-50 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:25 pm
BONES wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:49 pm
Orbit-50 wrote:
Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:37 pm
You got it. They're resting on the laurel's built by their predecessors, and giving away the farm as many times as they can. This is not Roland anymore, it's just a bunch of suits bleeding the company that Ikutaro built. It seems to be all the rage these days with other companies as well. It's disgusting where this world is going. There are no more trustworthy brands anymore.
I don't see how it is Roland's fault. They are just making what people want to buy. If you want to blame anyone, blame everyone who lusts after ancient piles of junk. Honestly, buying a couple of Boutiques was a real reminder of just how ordinary Roland synths are but people still rate them and buy them, more than they do new and modern instruments.
Thanks for the perspective Bones. You've effectively eased the "Roland has left the building" blow for me. That's a very good point that I overlooked. I have to remember that they are a business, and they are just giving the sheep what they want.
BONES wrote:
Sun Sep 15, 2019 11:49 pm
Now, if there is someone you want to have a go at, have a go at Behringer. Behringer steal other companies' products and clone them. How they get away with it beggars belief. Seriously, why would Roland let them build a carbon copy SH 101? It's nuts.
It's a running joke at work with one of my employees, where he would walk in every other week and show me a new Behringer product that was a complete rippoff of Roland and Boss products. I would explain to him how Roland Corp., in it's heyday, would have cast a nuclear sized lawsuit against anyone who would have attempted to pull that crap. There are probably a few companies till this very day, that shudder at the thought of Roland's legal department. I don't know how Behringer is getting away with this now. Who knows, maybe they are paying Roland for the rights to create these graven images? Whatever it is, it's nuts.
You know how when you go to the pharmacy they ask if you are ok with generic versions of your script? It's the same thing (basically, although patent law CAN be quite complex and there are exceptions). But on a simple level, this is what Behringer is doing, they are producing the generic version of these old synths and Roland are not suing for the same reason Pfeizer, Roche and the likes do not sue the makers of generic versions of the drugs they developed years ago...all perfectly legal and above board.
Gotcha. So I guess Behringer did their research first and realized they could get away with it.
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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
9291 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: Roland Jupiter X and XM (new synths)

Post Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:58 pm

AnX wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:59 am
I'll take the Behringer stuff over any of that crap everyday
Maybe if someone gave it to you but I can't see you putting your hand in your pocket for any of it.
chk071 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:29 am
You must be confusing me with someone else. :o
No, I'm pretty sure you're the guy who said Roland were "disgusting" for rehashing their own vintage synths and then went on to defend Behringer for ripping off other people's vintage synths.
Apart from that, i have no idea why you talk about morals.
Because you brought it up. You said Roland were "disgusting" for doing something perfectly legal, yet wanted to defend Behringer for doing something that is at best legally shady and morally a whole lot worse than what Roland are doing.
What is immoral about copying someone else's work, when there is no patent or copyright infringement?
So if you were to submit an essay written by someone who has been dead for more than 50 years (no copyright) under your own name, do you think you would get a good grade or do you think you would be failed for plagiarising? I think you'd be lucky not to be kicked off the course entirely.
It happens every day. And it's perfectly fine to do so, as long as, as mentioned, you don't infringe someone else's work.
So you will do absolutely anything, as long as it's legal? You have no other moral framework? You would, for example, verbally abuse someone else just to make yourself feel better? You' take up two seats on a crowded bus or train when there are elderly people standing? I can't say I'm surprised.
jacqueslacouth wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:51 am
The Neutron is not expensive but it has a brilliant sound. It gives me what I was looking for in my first round with a fully modular system and it more than holds its own amongst the competition.
For just a little more than a Neutron I could have an IK Uno synth plus a Modal Craft Synth 2.0. That's a great sounding analogue synth plus a brilliant wavetable synth, both with keyboards of their own, great portability and all the conveniences of modern synths - programmable sequencer, patch memory, VSTi editor/librarian, etc., or a slab of uselessness that can't even recall sounds. A 4 voice Minilogue isn't much more expensive than a Neutron.

If you want a cheap entry into modular synths, there is always the Volca Micro-Modular for half the price of a Neutron.
Orbit-50 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 1:25 pm
I don't know how Behringer is getting away with this now. Who knows, maybe they are paying Roland for the rights to create these graven images? Whatever it is, it's nuts.
What's really nuts is that Korg are letting them get away with making an MS-20 clone when Korg are still selling their own MS-20.
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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
9291 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: Roland Jupiter X and XM (new synths)

Post Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:44 pm

lfm wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:31 pm
Roland do great sounding stuff - but don't think I saw one that really was made to be creative, for real.
Really? I must have been extremely unlucky in only ever buying the average sounding stuff. Even though many of my earliest synths, including the first one I ever bought, were Rolands, I have never really rated them. They never sounded as full and rich as Korg's stuff, or any of the American brands. Their appeal always seemed to be cramming a lot of features into their products at a good price. e.g. Compare a JX-3P to a Poly61M - the JX had twice as many features as the Korg for the same price, it just didn't sound half as good. At the time, I made the mistake of going for the features when I should have listened to the sound more. Eventually you get older and wiser, though, although I lapsed and stupidly bought a couple of Boutiques a couple of years ago.
NOVAkILL 4.0 : Dell G7 17 (Core i7, 8GB RAM, Win10), UR44C, Cubase, DUNE, Thorn, TRK-01, Equator, Hive, Substance, Arcsyn, Aparillo, Phase Plant, Pigments, Trueno, Analog Keys, MicroMonsta, Uno, Skulpt, Craft 2.

lfm
KVRAF
5159 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Re: Roland Jupiter X and XM (new synths)

Post Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:35 pm

BONES wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 5:44 pm
lfm wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:31 pm
Roland do great sounding stuff - but don't think I saw one that really was made to be creative, for real.
Really? I must have been extremely unlucky in only ever buying the average sounding stuff. Even though many of my earliest synths, including the first one I ever bought, were Rolands, I have never really rated them. They never sounded as full and rich as Korg's stuff, or any of the American brands. Their appeal always seemed to be cramming a lot of features into their products at a good price. e.g. Compare a JX-3P to a Poly61M - the JX had twice as many features as the Korg for the same price, it just didn't sound half as good. At the time, I made the mistake of going for the features when I should have listened to the sound more. Eventually you get older and wiser, though, although I lapsed and stupidly bought a couple of Boutiques a couple of years ago.
I have/had D50, SH32, JV80,D-05 - they all sound(ed) terrific to me. I got the D-05 due experience earlier with D50.
I was really close jumping on JD-Xa or System-8 this year, really, really close - but stumbled on how creativity was lacking - both terrific sounding. Roland Cloud thingy seem to be built on buying or having access to more modules to use - but not own creativity so much.

Both JD-Xa and System-8 have plenty knobs and stuff - nice that way - but you could get Nordlead A1 that really feed creativity for much less, 30% or so.

But looking at Jupiter X possibly, having full size keys - or no go. Maybe they did a better job with this one. For some reason thomann.de only listed Xm - smaller size keys so have to look further. Thomann is nice with three years warranty on everything - and they are very keen to help - so have to see. Will look at andertons.co.uk which are good too.

We all jump too soon on some purchases we do - but have to take it as learning experience and/or education money. I did not think much of the other Boutique ones than D-05 either(those that were out as D-05 came) - too few memory slots to really experiment and explore. D-05 is really a power brick - even if not feeding creativity - but loads to choose from, even sysex out there for D50. So as rom module more or less it sound incredible to me. I stop at removing reverb and stuff to do in daw instead.

chk071
KVRAF
22455 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Roland Jupiter X and XM (new synths)

Post Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:39 pm

BONES wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:58 pm
No, I'm pretty sure you're the guy who said Roland were "disgusting" for rehashing their own vintage synths and then went on to defend Behringer for ripping off other people's vintage synths.
There's a search function you know. :lol:

search.php?keywords=disgusting&t=531221&sf=msgonly

lfm
KVRAF
5159 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Re: Roland Jupiter X and XM (new synths)

Post Mon Sep 16, 2019 11:05 pm

Saw that Roland Jupiter X is planned for release april 2020, so that might be a good reason not to list it yet. No manual or anything available yet.

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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
9291 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: Roland Jupiter X and XM (new synths)

Post Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:18 am

lfm wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:35 pm
I have/had D50, SH32, JV80,D-05 - they all sound(ed) terrific to me. I got the D-05 due experience earlier with D50.
My experience goes considerably further back than that. My first synth was an SH1000 and in the 5-6 years after that I had two TB-303s, an SH-101 and an RS-09, none of which were entirely satisfying compared to the other synths I had at the time - a Korg Delta and an ARP Axxe. TR-707 is the only Roland product I've owned that I really liked.
chk071 wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:39 pm
There's a search function you know. :lol:
search.php?keywords=disgusting&t=531221&sf=msgonly
My humble apologies, I could have sworn that was your post. Still, what Behringer are doing is douchebag stuff. It's what you do when you have no ideas of your own and you just want to cash in on whatever's trendy. I've had some great Behringer gear over the past 20-odd years but the best of it, the stuff that I've kept the longest, is the stuff that they've made from scratch themselves. e.g. The Shark is an awesome bit of kit that I couldn't imagine being without.
NOVAkILL 4.0 : Dell G7 17 (Core i7, 8GB RAM, Win10), UR44C, Cubase, DUNE, Thorn, TRK-01, Equator, Hive, Substance, Arcsyn, Aparillo, Phase Plant, Pigments, Trueno, Analog Keys, MicroMonsta, Uno, Skulpt, Craft 2.

chk071
KVRAF
22455 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Roland Jupiter X and XM (new synths)

Post Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:29 am

BONES wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 2:18 am
My humble apologies
No worries. :) I still don't agree about Behinger though. I don't even think it competes much with what the respective companies are offering. If you take the Model D, for example, the Moog guys will still buy Moog hardware. If only for the name tag on the device. :)

AnX
KVRAF
5995 posts since 17 Nov, 2015

Re: Roland Jupiter X and XM (new synths)

Post Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:36 am

BONES wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:58 pm
AnX wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:59 am
I'll take the Behringer stuff over any of that crap everyday
Maybe if someone gave it to you but I can't see you putting your hand in your pocket for any of it.
of course not, i dont need any of it. I have more stuff than I need right now. If I had stupid amounts of time and money, I'd buy loads of stuff to noodle around with for fun, but i dont have either.

JCJR
KVRAF
2896 posts since 17 Apr, 2005 from S.E. TN

Re: Roland Jupiter X and XM (new synths)

Post Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:10 am

lfm wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 10:35 pm
But looking at Jupiter X possibly, having full size keys - or no go. Maybe they did a better job with this one. For some reason thomann.de only listed Xm - smaller size keys so have to look further. Thomann is nice with three years warranty on everything - and they are very keen to help - so have to see. Will look at andertons.co.uk which are good too.
I thought one of the early videos explained that the full size key X won't be out til late this year or next year. Maybe remembering wrong.

If any I would like the 88 key fantom. If I had one would certainly not begrudge it some space to sit in the studio. And I would probably play it often enough.

Don't think it is worth $4000 to me tho. If I didn't have several synths and a couple of 88s already then maybe it could seem worth $4000 but I'm purt skinflinty.

If it contained a true sampler engine maybe the equation would change. Maybe it does but the sparse info so far soumds like a lame DJ sampler as on the FA. Would love to be surprised otherwise.
.

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vurt
addled muppet weed
56718 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Roland Jupiter X and XM (new synths)

Post Tue Sep 17, 2019 6:07 am

AnX wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 3:36 am
BONES wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:58 pm
AnX wrote:
Mon Sep 16, 2019 4:59 am
I'll take the Behringer stuff over any of that crap everyday
Maybe if someone gave it to you but I can't see you putting your hand in your pocket for any of it.
of course not, i dont need any of it. I have more stuff than I need right now. If I had stupid amounts of time and money, I'd buy loads of stuff to noodle around with for fun, but i dont have either.
some volcas and a mini battery mixer, set of cans.
can noodle in between casting and getting a bite :tu:
(unless its fly fishing of course...)

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Orbit-50
KVRAF
2339 posts since 29 Jun, 2005 from La La Land

Re: Roland Jupiter X and XM (new synths)

Post Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:13 am

JCJR wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 5:10 am
If it contained a true sampler engine maybe the equation would change. Maybe it does but the sparse info so far soumds like a lame DJ sampler as on the FA. Would love to be surprised otherwise.
That was why I ranted about the "all new Fantom" and Roland's audacity to slap a $4000.00 price tag on what amounts to be a FA-06 with a new coat of paint and a bunch of smoke and mirror add ons. I'm butt-hurt because after this new product release, I can clearly see what direction the company is going in, and now it's official, I've waited a long, long time for it, but I'll never be able to buy a real "flagship workstation" made by Roland. It will never exist at this rate.
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dellboy
KVRian
1118 posts since 28 Mar, 2007

Re: Roland Jupiter X and XM (new synths)

Post Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:39 am

Orbit-50 wrote:
Tue Sep 17, 2019 9:13 am

That was why I ranted about the "all new Fantom" and Roland's audacity to slap a $4000.00 price tag on what amounts to be a FA-06 with a new coat of paint and a bunch of smoke and mirror add ons. I'm butt-hurt because after this new product release, I can clearly see what direction the company is going in, and now it's official, I've waited a long, long time for it, but I'll never be able to buy a real "flagship workstation" made by Roland. It will never exist at this rate.
Does the Roland FA-06 have V-Piano ?

If not, maybe the best way to look at the Roland Fantom 88 key is as a piano with other stuff added.

They have built in their V-Piano technology which is similar to Pianoteq to give it full polyphony. Couple that with a superb keybed and it is a gigging musicians dream machine. Not so good on the back though, it weighs 61 lbs 2 oz. The rest of the stuff like the Sampler and Ableton looping are a bonus.

Expensive, but seems to be worth it for a professional musician as it appears to be selling well.

JCJR
KVRAF
2896 posts since 17 Apr, 2005 from S.E. TN

Re: Roland Jupiter X and XM (new synths)

Post Tue Sep 17, 2019 10:31 am

Ya as dellboy said, for one thing Roland claims to be real proud of the quality of the Fantom 88 keyboard mechanism. Dunno if that is justified. I never played it and even if a keyboard feels like heaven on earth to one guy doesn't mean it will feel thataway to another. Just assuming for the moment that it am true that these 88's are to die for...

And then when Roland was selling the V-Piano they wanted about 19 zillion and seven dollars for it. Now it is anyones guess whether the V-Piano in the Fantom sounds identical or better, and has identical or better features than the 19 zillion and seven dollar V-Piano. Just assuming for the moment that it am true that this is as good or better than a V-Piano and a fella would particularly like or desire the V-Piano sound compared to something else he can buy nowadays.

In that case $4000 would be a bargain just for the V-Piano. The sequencer also looks real desireable to me.

I'd have to play the damn thing for a few months to make up my mind whether I really really dig the keyboard and the V-Piano sound. And already own keyboard feel and piano sounds "good enough for a retired mediocre fried crispy geezer". :)

Tis doubtful they would let me try it out that long before buying it. :)

I really hate selling stuff. Just ain't got no horse-trader chromosomes. If I'm not purt damn certain I'll keep something till it falls apart then I don't buy it.

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