Behringer Crave

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Bones you are missing the point of the sequencer in Crave. It isn't going to capture motion sequencing because the synth is under analog control. It doesn't make it useless... not by far. It has 5 parameters that it can capture AND it can output on CV.

Uno sounds great, more oscillators and has really fantastic recall of presets and computer control and excels in live performance. That is why I bought it. Fantastic value.

Crave is a mono - semi modular patching synth with a traditional ladder filter, LFO. It punches well above its weight and can integrate nicely with other analog synths. The sequencer is really nicely spec'd for an inexpensive analog synth. The patch points allows it to pull off all kinds of tricks ... I can run the Uno into the mix points. I can use me SQ-1 to modulate other features and introduce more animation... I can use it to layer with or be layered with other synths with CV input and outputs quite easily.

The differences between the UNO and the Crave are easily spotted. It is precisely those differences that make both attractive to me. Calling out the Crave for what it isn't is like getting mad a fish for not being able to climb a tree.

I won't argue that for you it isn't a good fit. For me, who is also a UNO owner there is room in my studio for this and I can see the possibilities. I'll likely have this once I can demo it in person.

In particular, I can't wait to make up some custom cables and start to connect this together with my Korg Modular and sample the happy accidents using my Digitakt and then take it from there.

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new page starts with an on topic post, lets keep it that way...I know my warning will get ignored by most so this is the only warning I am gonna give...talk about the pros and cons of the synths, not the members
The highest form of knowledge is empathy, for it requires us to suspend our egos and live in another's world. It requires profound, purpose‐larger‐than‐the‐self kind of understanding.

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Maybe someone should start a thread on the Uno to discuss it rather than compare the two synths, as they’re obviously not targeting the same audience?

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The demo sounds a bit el cheepo preamp-ish. Tho it is very cheap, I do like that sort of fuzzy tone better.

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I think the comparisons between UNO and Crave are to be expected given that they fall into roughly the same price category. One of the earlier reviewers of the Crave (pre production) mentioned the UNO as an alternative along with a couple of Korg Volcas.

It is just great to be in a position to be able to debate the merits of each at their very reasonable price points. I wouldn't have thought that either product would have been able to come to market for their respective asking price but with modern manufacturing processes, we can have it. I'll have one of each thank you.

Forgotten wrote: Sun Oct 13, 2019 2:06 pm Maybe someone should start a thread on the Uno to discuss it rather than compare the two synths, as they’re obviously not targeting the same audience?

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I’m not interested in either one of these synths. I won’t bother with the Crave because I already bought a Mother-32 when it first came out. I think the M32 sounds really good for what it is, but at the same time it is quite limited with only one oscillator. Moog knows this, which is why they were offering tabletop racks to hold two or three M32’s. I was planning to get a second one, but thankfully came to my senses. By the time you put three of those together, you could have bought a much better synth to begin with. However, as a foot in the door to the world of modular, it’s a good value. I already had a large modular system, and since then have built up a collection of several of these various small, semi-modular synths which can transform into a single powerful modular in their own right. But I’m done with all that, and I don’t need Crave.

Uno does sound really good. I wish I could justify getting one. But from what I’ve seen, I HATE the user interface. Not nearly enough dedicated knobs for my liking, and too much button pushing. Also no modular patch points to make up for that. To me it, along with Crave, represents the continued race to the bottom for the market for inexpensive desktop synths.
Incomplete list of my gear: 1/8" audio input jack.

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Deastman, interesting comments. What would represent good value and quality to you? I am hearing what you don't like but what are you currently enjoying or what are you potentially looking at as a future purchase? Anything outside of the modular realm or is that your main thing now?

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My most recent acquisition is a Waldorf Quantum. While unquestionably overpriced and imperfect, it really continues to amaze me with the wide range of sounds and synthesis techniques on offer. Without a doubt it would be my desert island synth.

Sadly, being the gear addict that I am, I keep looking at Hydrasynth as well. It seems to offer similar capabilities to the wavetable portion of Quantum at a very reasonable price. I think it’s going to be hugely popular.

My other desert island synth is the half size Haken Continuum. It is undeniably the pinnacle of expressive controllers, with a deep and powerful internal synth engine to match. You really have to experience one first hand to appreciate the difference.

In terms of small, semi-modular synths, I think the 0-Coast is my favorite. It works best paired with something else to provide sequencing and a proper analog filter, but it feels to me like I’m interacting with some sort of brain tease puzzle which is capable of almost anything if you can just figure out a clever way of patching it. Maybe that isn’t what most people want from a musical instrument, but I find it an entertaining diversion if nothing else.
Incomplete list of my gear: 1/8" audio input jack.

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AnX wrote: Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:19 pmso, by your own admittance, it's a lower quality sound than you would normally use, and you won't be playing it live.
You need to brush up on your comprehension skills. Uno sounds great, it's just a lot more hassle than a VSTi in a production environment. It makes a lot more sense live, where nobody will notice all the little hardware foibles like noisy cables/jacks and the like. It's been so good that I am tempted to buy a second one, I just don't have anywhere to fit it in and I don't want to get rid of anything else to make way for it.
Elektronisch wrote: Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:13 pmBones why you always have to insult people that do not meet your opinion?
I do it in the hope that they might try to do better next time. Present a well reasoned argument and it will earn my respect. It's pretty simple, really.
By the way static noise for UNO when using USB is a common problem that is stated in the official FAQ.
Yes, it is. Interestingly, though, I never encountered it until I started using Overhub but I discovered that if I put Uno in one of the end jacks the problem goes away. I can still hear it very faintly while it is calibrating, when I first turn it on, but once it's ready to go it is as quiet as a mouse. But those are just the kinds of things you have to deal with when you use hardware. Even my Walkman gives off horrible mains hum when it's not powered on and I have to physically disconnect it or it drives me nuts. It's why I do all my production with software, it takes all that hassle out of the process.
NOVAkILL : Asus RoG Flow Z13, Core i9, 16GB RAM, Win11 | EVO 16 | Studio One | bx_oberhausen, GR-8, JP6K, Union, Hexeract, Olga, TRK-01, SEM, BA-1, Thorn, Prestige, Spire, Legend-HZ, ANA-2, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro, Rocket.

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Scotty wrote: Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:45 pmIt isn't going to capture motion sequencing because the synth is under analog control.
Being "under analog control" is not an excuse, it is still useless.
It has 5 parameters that it can capture AND it can output on CV.
Uno's sequencer has 20 parameter lanes and my KeyStep can do CV/gate output (for some weird reason I may never understand).
Crave is a mono - semi modular patching synth with a traditional ladder filter, LFO. It punches well above its weight and can integrate nicely with other analog synths. The sequencer is really nicely spec'd for an inexpensive analog synth. The patch points allows it to pull off all kinds of tricks ... I can run the Uno into the mix points. I can use me SQ-1 to modulate other features and introduce more animation... I can use it to layer with or be layered with other synths with CV input and outputs quite easily.

The differences between the UNO and the Crave are easily spotted. It is precisely those differences that make both attractive to me. Calling out the Crave for what it isn't is like getting mad a fish for not being able to climb a tree.

I won't argue that for you it isn't a good fit. For me, who is also a UNO owner there is room in my studio for this and I can see the possibilities. I'll likely have this once I can demo it in person.

In particular, I can't wait to make up some custom cables and start to connect this together with my Korg Modular and sample the happy accidents using my Digitakt and then take it from there.
Mushy Mushy, Elektronisch and others take note - what you see above is a well reasoned argument in favour of Crave. It spells out exactly what it's appeal is to Scotty in a way that makes sense. There are portions of it I don't agree with but I can see and respect his position on the matter. Same goes for Deastman's post below.
deastman wrote: Sun Oct 13, 2019 5:52 pmUno does sound really good. I wish I could justify getting one. But from what I’ve seen, I HATE the user interface. Not nearly enough dedicated knobs for my liking, and too much button pushing.
I suppose it depends what you want to use it for. I much prefer programming sounds from the editor/librarian, sometimes in stand-alone but mostly as a VSTi, but as Uno is one of 5 synths I own with a similar matrix style editing interface, I am completely comfortable working with it from the front panel as well. Since I first bought a Yamaha CS1x back in the late 90s I have though that style of parameter editing was really easy and a perfect compromise.
Also no modular patch points to make up for that. To me it, along with Crave, represents the continued race to the bottom for the market for inexpensive desktop synths.
That's a very snobbish way to look at it, as though such things are beneath you. Yes, Uno and Crave are clearly built to a price but putting those sorts of constraints on a product can lead to some clever solutions. In the case of Uno, they found ways to save pennies without affecting the way the instrument sounds and when something sounds as good as Uno does, I'll find a way to make it work for me. As it happens, however, it's pretty much perfectly set up for the way I work already so I haven't had to make any serious compromises to wring the most out of it. It also has something that makes it extra special - portability. I can throw it in a messenger bag with my Surface Pro 2 for a weekend away, where it can be a stand-alone synth and/or a tiny controller for whatever I'm doing on the SPro 2. Mind you, my Lightpad M Block is an even tinier controller that also works surprisingly well. Seriously, playing something like Roli's Equator with the Lightpad M Block is every bit as addictive as playing a Seaboard, where playing the Uno's keys is purely functional. It gets the job done, nothing more.
NOVAkILL : Asus RoG Flow Z13, Core i9, 16GB RAM, Win11 | EVO 16 | Studio One | bx_oberhausen, GR-8, JP6K, Union, Hexeract, Olga, TRK-01, SEM, BA-1, Thorn, Prestige, Spire, Legend-HZ, ANA-2, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro, Rocket.

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I’m not sure why it’s snobbish to say that building synths as cheaply as possible and cutting every conceivable corner is snobbish. I still agree that they sound good! But sure, compromises have obviously been made on the Uno in terms of front panel controls. I’m not interested in using it with a software editor, or I would have just used a software synth to begin with. As far as I’m concerned, as long as a synth sounds good, which most of them do these days, the real advantage of hardware is in tactile controls. And regarding Crave, it is very much a race to the bottom, considering it bears a striking resemblance to the M32, but at a price point which only the big B could hope to achieve, thereby undercutting demand for the original.

Modulation matrices: I tolerate them in order to gain patch storage, but ergonomically they aren’t my preferred method.
Incomplete list of my gear: 1/8" audio input jack.

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It's not what you said so much as the way you said it, which implied you weren't interested in Uno or Crave because they were cheap. I'm the opposite, I love things that are cheap and see little value in most expensive synths, soft or hard. I could never imagine spending more than Au$1000 (US$600) on a hardware synth and that is all down to the fact that things like Uno and Crave exist for less than $200. I spent US$800 on Analog Keys but if Uno had been around then, I doubt I'd have even been looking. Same with software, I've never spent more than $100 on any plugin and can't imagine that I ever will, simply because the stuff I can get for under $100 is spectacularly good and more than meets my needs.
NOVAkILL : Asus RoG Flow Z13, Core i9, 16GB RAM, Win11 | EVO 16 | Studio One | bx_oberhausen, GR-8, JP6K, Union, Hexeract, Olga, TRK-01, SEM, BA-1, Thorn, Prestige, Spire, Legend-HZ, ANA-2, VG Iron 2 | Uno Pro, Rocket.

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BONES wrote: Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:34 pm
AnX wrote: Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:19 pmso, by your own admittance, it's a lower quality sound than you would normally use, and you won't be playing it live.
You need to brush up on your comprehension skills.
not really, that's exactly what you said.

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AnX wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2019 5:12 am
BONES wrote: Sun Oct 13, 2019 11:34 pm
AnX wrote: Sun Oct 13, 2019 1:19 pmso, by your own admittance, it's a lower quality sound than you would normally use, and you won't be playing it live.
You need to brush up on your comprehension skills.
not really, that's exactly what you said.
BONES wrote: Sun Oct 13, 2019 12:01 pm
AnX wrote: Sun Oct 13, 2019 8:03 amso it's not good enough to record, but good enough to use live....?
Exactly!
It's a lower quality and bones is happy to use it live.

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I’m still confused as to why we need to compare. If you like the Uno, get the Uno :shrug:

I’ll live happily ever after with my Crave and you do the same with the Uno. It’s really not that difficult.
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"

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