KVR Audio

TW1306 · Post by **TW1306** » Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:09 pm

I've been trying to make music for a few years, in particular the 'older' style of trance (pretty much anything from 1999-2005). I've done the obvious thing and gotten some plugins (synth1, a couple from roland cloud) but I'm still struggling to make something that genuinely sounds like it might have come from that period.

Unfortunately I'm too young to have been around when this stuff was actually being made, so aside from the names of a couple of synths I don't know much about how these tracks would have been produced/recorded. Are there any tips or tricks (e.g. production techniques) that could help with getting an 'authentic' trance sound?

Any advice is greatly appreciated!

perfumer · Post by **perfumer** » Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:38 pm

Get Sylenth1 and use the factory presets.
Get a 909 emulation for drums. Or use Vengeance drum samples.

That's it, really. This has been done to death, you've got ready-made presets, samples, etc. Synth1 won't take you far in terms of sound, though. Especially if you're after the polished sound.

SynapT!c · Post by **SynapT!c** » Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:52 pm

perfumer wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 2:38 pm
Synth1 won't take you far in terms of sound, though.

Erm...,

https://youtu.be/9nDlZgfd_lU

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:05 pm

Synth1 may be OK for such sound, but, Sylenth1 simply excels at them. That's why everyone uses it for stuff like that.

On the other hand, i don't know if it justifies the purchase. Better get Spire. It also does old school very well. And it can do so much more than Sylenth1.

andymcbain · Post by **andymcbain** » Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:18 pm

Hunt around for some early sample CDs. Vengeance Essential Clubsounds Vol 1. came out in 2004 - and I believe uses some drum samples ripped from tracks around the same era, so that might help you out.

Hardware VA synths were the thing back then. Roland JP8000/8080, Novation Supernova, Access Virus etc. In my opinion they still have a certain sound character (probably due to the old DACs) but there's nothing there that can't be emulated with software synths. U-He Diva has a very close emulation of the JP8000 Supersaw oscillator for example.

Have fun!

TW1306 · Post by **TW1306** » Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:45 pm

andymcbain wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 3:18 pm and I believe uses some drum samples ripped from tracks around the same era, so that might help you out.

I've just had a look, and I've already found plenty of samples that I recognise from existing tracks, so this is sure to be a good asset. Thank you very much for the recommendation!

tehlord · Post by **tehlord** » Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:04 pm

Synth1 is ideal for trance, dunno what those guys up there are on about. A lot of the oldskool was made using Nord Leads, which is what Synth1 is based on.

I would also suggest using a JP8080 emulator and/or something similar to an early Virus. Sylenth does indeed cover almost all of this ground, specifically nailing the supersaw and filter/envelope characteristics.

'Most' drums would have come from a 909, but there was a lot of mileage in using 707 congas back in the day too.

The guys that were making it tended to run it all through big analogue desks (for REALLY oldskool trance) although that's not an absolutely essential part of the sound.

Don't ignore the analogue emulation synths either because in the late 90s a lot of the trance guys were still using Juno's (etc), especially for bass. Think Gamemaster etc. On the other hand, some guys were using a few select patches out of the JV1080/JD990 too...particularly the pizzicato patch made famous by Faithless.

It really depends on what kind of oldskool trance sound you mean because it was an emerging genre back then with a lot of variety.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:45 pm

tehlord wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:04 pm Synth1 is ideal for trance, dunno what those guys up there are on about. A lot of the oldskool was made using Nord Leads, which is what Synth1 is based on.

I really don't know what you're hearing in it. I just gave it a try again, like i do every half a year, and it still gets a beating by the payware i own. Don't get me wrong, it's not bad, but, not exactly great either.

Although i must admit that it's probably the best choice for such sounds, if you're looking for a free option.

tehlord · Post by **tehlord** » Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:54 pm

chk071 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 14, 2019 7:45 pm

I really don't know what you're hearing in it. I just gave it a try again, like i do every half a year, and it still gets a beating by the payware i own. Don't get me wrong, it's not bad, but, not exactly great either.

Although i must admit that it's probably the best choice for such sounds, if you're looking for a free option.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKRwHFxXl1Q

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2JWJkINSzI

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iaZmapWvKis

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KOgw-H-yzo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nDlZgfd_lU

DJ Warmonger · Post by **DJ Warmonger** » Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:04 pm

- Arpeggiators for melodies. And trancegate.
- Phaser to get things moving.
- Synths controlled and recorded by hand rather than layers of modulation.
- Minimal arrangement rather than tons of tracks.

Either way, too "oldschool" and simple trance feels boring today, and I can't help you with that. All simple melodies have been exhausted, you can't make another new classic in old style.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:06 pm

@tehlord: You know, one thing where Synth1 actually could be better for this use case is the oldschool filter sound, and aliasing smudge which resembles mixed in noise.

Apart from that, i don't see a reason why i would use it over Spire or Sylenth1. It's the same kind of synth, just... worse. YMMV.

And, there are talented sound designers which get a lot of mileage out of any synth. That doesn't mean that one synth doesn't beat the other. But, i don't have to tell you that.

tehlord · Post by **tehlord** » Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:08 pm

Sylenth could replace Synth1 for sure, but personally I'm not a fan of the Spire sound for oldskool trance, it's a bit BOLD and always ON. You're right though, it does sound old fashioned, and so does a real JP8080. That won't MAKE you able to recreate oldskool trance though, but it doesn't hurt.

But again, it really depends exactly what the OP is trying to recreate.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:12 pm

Yeah, there should be a few more details.

Anyway, maybe it's total overkill anyway to buy a 150 € plus synth for this, and the OP indeed needs to get a bit more out of Synth1.

TW1306 · Post by **TW1306** » Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:30 pm

I get the feeling I might have accidentally sparked something...for what it's worth I have used synth1 in a couple of tracks already.

As for examples, it'd be difficult to pick just a few tracks, but I shuffled my music player and these four came up first:
youtube.com/watch?v=9J9uloGe9qk
youtube.com/watch?v=x3FiRCV7hHg
youtube.com/watch?v=DaXovfERC4U
youtube.com/watch?v=MmWhgdfFM5Q

tehlord · Post by **tehlord** » Tue Oct 15, 2019 7:12 am

There's no one definitive sound in those examples, but I am hearing a mixture of late 90's VA, early 90's sampling and late 80's/early 90's rompler (M1, JV1080 etc).

There would have been a LOAD of Akai samplers still around back then and most artists had several of the sample CD's that were knocking around at the time.

Tips for 'old-school' trance?