FXpansion releases Cypher2

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Cypher (DCAM: Synth Squad) Cypher2

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Dasheesh wrote: Thu Oct 17, 2019 11:48 pm I would like to address this problem gingerly, because I use said software, and the people raising concerns here know what they are talking about for the most part. (here comes the but) but, you assign a modulation amount because the modulation is automated. once you take control of the said modulation... you become the amount correct? you are now manually setting the amount of modulation by hand. I'm not sure how you can automate, and manually set, at the same time. tell me I'm wrong, because I'm not sure what is going on here, and I love to learn.
Not quite. Modulation is always relative to the current position of the parameter, unlike automation which is usually writing a specific value. So automation is more like you’re talking about - it’s like automatically moving the as if by hand, which is why there are takeover modes in hosts for that scenario where you tweak it manually and it disables it until you tell it to resume. Modulation on the other hand like I said, is relative from the current position (could be positive or negative or both ways) but moving it always keep the amount of modulation applied, even you move the value to the limit of the range, such as if you have a filter being modulated by a positive lfo which raises the value and then back down quickly, but then you open the filter all the way. The modulation is still applied but you don’t hear a change because the filter is at its max value so the lfo can’t open it anymore. But as soon as you bring the filter back down the lfo is still working. You can move the filter wherever you want and have that lfo still applied based on the current value wherever it is. You’re manual adjustment does not over rule the modulation. Sound design would be kind of a disaster on many synths if this wasn’t the case. Unfortunately in cyphers case tweaking a parameter into the modulated range does cut the modulation range until it can be removed entirely.

But again, it sounds like they are aware and it’s on the list. Let’s just hope it doesn’t take too long. For any mono, sequences types sounds, I would probably use Bitwig’s modulation instead so that I can adjust parameters without losing modulation.

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i see, we are talking about range vs amount here. you want to keep the assigned RANGE due to the complexities of the modulation possibilities.

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Well when a synth has a modulation amount it controls the range of modulation on the target, so same thing really. In cypher the mod amount is the ring around a knob or range on a slider. So yeah amount/range.

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BTW: I sent support a video demonstrating the bug. (I just wanted to be absolutely shure that they understood how bad it is.)
So if anybody wants to see it "in action" (no, it is not a very exiting video :-) ) here is the link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/sqzjqhb81wzpn ... g.MOV?dl=0

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And while we are it, here I am showing another bug: https://www.dropbox.com/s/g0zj5h4xtdj69 ... 2.MOV?dl=0
The thing is: Shit happens if you use the Morph function AND touch any knob while going from Left Preset to Right Preset.
Apart from that, morph is really cool. (But use it to go from one version of a patch to another version of same patch. Or in other words: All "cabling" should be the same, to get a smooth morph.)

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Nice videos, glad you sent those to them!

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LarsDaniel wrote: Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:36 pm BTW: I sent support a video demonstrating the bug. (I just wanted to be absolutely shure that they understood how bad it is.)
So if anybody wants to see it "in action" (no, it is not a very exiting video :-) ) here is the link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/sqzjqhb81wzpn ... g.MOV?dl=0
Wow. How long have FXpansino known about this?
"What embecile composed this list :/"

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It was there since forever. No other synth does that. It's quite appalling.

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Right, but it never be a problem for me :)
Personally, if I want to modulate something, I always prefer the internal modulation, via source mod or cc, to ext automation.
Cypher2 has enough transmod slots.
Why use parameters automation: they're mono and with some lag. ( plus, if I need to automate something, I rarely do extreme range ). Yes, it's a bug, but it never annoys me :)
Best
YY

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Brittlestem wrote: Sat Oct 19, 2019 5:59 pm
LarsDaniel wrote: Sat Oct 19, 2019 12:36 pm BTW: I sent support a video demonstrating the bug. (I just wanted to be absolutely shure that they understood how bad it is.)
So if anybody wants to see it "in action" (no, it is not a very exiting video :-) ) here is the link: https://www.dropbox.com/s/sqzjqhb81wzpn ... g.MOV?dl=0
Wow. How long have FXpansino known about this?
I have no idea but I never saw it mentioned until recently when I brought it up but maybe it came up earlier in the thread and I didn't notice. I can't believe nobody noticed this in beta testing or preset design. I noticed immediately trying the demo.

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OK, just to clear up a bit of the FUD..

I'm still here working for FXpansion and ROLI. On another project at the moment which will see the light of day in a couple of weeks ( https://roli.com/stories/blocks-studio-editions ), but will be back on Cypher2 in a few weeks.

Some of the "simple" bug fixes posted above don't reflect what's actually going on in the synth. When it was last overhauled circa v2.3, we moved to a single source of truth as to the current state of the system. This is what's in the DSP engine.. and you 1) don't want to have out-of-range values in there, because most people like to keep their speaker driver magnets physically attached to the speaker; 2) don't want to be clipping that value every time you use it, because this thing uses quite enough CPU already; 3) want to keep the memory footprint as small as possible, so that the whole synth engine fits in L2 cache. (400 parameters, four bytes, 32 mod depths adds up to a non-trivial amount of memory when you're trying to fit the whole audio engine in 256kb).

The unfortunate side effect of this is that the range-clipped value is the _only_ value that's presently stored. It's fixable.. we "just" have to keep another un-clipped copy somewhere on the GUI side, update it when value changes come in on the DSP thread (CC automation for example), and use that as a master source of truth. (It's not quite as simple as that, but that's the basic idea).
This account is dormant, I am no longer employed by FXpansion / ROLI.

Find me on LinkedIn or elsewhere if you need to get in touch.

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Whatever needs to be done to make it behave like all other synths with regards to modulation range never being erased when you move the control manually, should be done. :)

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EvilDragon wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:53 am Whatever needs to be done to make it behave like all other synths with regards to modulation range never being erased when you move the control manually, should be done. :)
Yeah. I mean if every other synth had it figured out from their release, I would think it wouldn't be all that hard for Cypher to do it as well.

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EvilDragon wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:53 am Whatever needs to be done to make it behave like all other synths with regards to modulation range never being erased when you move the control manually, should be done. :)
Would have to agree, after testing, all other synths I have keep range values somehow.

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EvilDragon wrote: Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:53 am Whatever needs to be done to make it behave like all other synths with regards to modulation range never being erased when you move the control manually, should be done. :)
This.



Good to hear that Angus is still on Cypher2. But I care less about what seems to be some kind of excuse for the current behavior. I did not entirely understand it, and I don´t need to. All I need to, is to get non-beta software, when I payed well for a finished product. Yes, bugs are known to exist in most software, but this is a major malfunction. Essentially I have been sold a product that never actually worked properly. And it still to this day (l-o-n-g after the problem arose) does not.

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