Tips for 'old-school' trance?

[TW1306]

a mixture of late 90's VA

This might be a stupid question, but what's VA? I'm sure I'm probably aware, but I can't think of what it stands for.

most artists had several of the sample CD's that were knocking around at the time.

I actually managed to get my hands on a collection of samples from one of those CDs, a producer mentioned it in an interview I watched and I was able to find a download - though getting hold of some others certainly wouldn't be a bad thing.

[Mushy Mushy]

but what's VA?

Virtual Analog (ie, digital recreations of analogue synths and subtractive synthesis).

[tehlord]

Yeah the VA synths of the time were things like Nord Lead, Virus, Quasimidi, MS2000 and then also the 'Romplers' which were still able to do the VA stuff but with sampled waveforms, synths like JV1080, JD990, M1, D50 etc.

Some of the most ubiquitous samples came from the Zero G Datafile series.

[recursive one]

Viper for Virus, Jp6k or Sunrizer for JP8000, Discovery for Nordlead, Tal Bassline -101 or Lush-101 for SH101, Phoscyon or Abl for TB303, Korg Legacy collection (digital). I think this would approximate the harware setup an average trance producer might have in late 90s - early 00s. Not sounding exactly the same but close enough to catch the overall vibe.

Older trance was arranged and mixed in a much simpler way than today - less synths, less layers, less processing. More repetition and slow progression instead of massive buildups and drops. So if you just put together some basic trance presets over a simple beat and program a typical trance arp melody this would already sound like oldschool trance.

Maybe you would need a tape and/or a console emulation if you want your mixes a bit less clean. Another improtant thing must be the reverb, look for emulations of the digital reverbs people were using in the 90's (maybe Valhalla Vinatge Verb in one of the "older" modes will do the trick).

Maybe post your own track and tell us what you think is missing?

[Mushy Mushy]

^ This.

FX on sends too rather than inserts. Typically only a couple delay units and a single reverb that most channels were sent to on the desk.

[TW1306]

I realise I might have been a bit vague in my original post, so here's the most recent track I've been able to finish:

https://soundcloud.com/spatial-sound/fl ... iginal-mix

I've found it a bit difficult to put what I'm thinking into words, but what I essentially mean is that to me, it doesn't sound like something that could genuinely have come from that time period (i.e. early 2000s). If someone were to play this in a classics mix, it'd be obvious that it didn't quite belong. I don't know if it's the sounds/samples that I'm using, or if it's the mixing/mastering, but I know I'm probably doing something wrong.

[Mushy Mushy]

I realise I might have been a bit vague in my original post, so here's the most recent track I've been able to finish:

https://soundcloud.com/spatial-sound/fl ... iginal-mix

I've found it a bit difficult to put what I'm thinking into words, but what I essentially mean is that to me, it doesn't sound like something that could genuinely have come from that time period (i.e. early 2000s). If someone were to play this in a classics mix, it'd be obvious that it didn't quite belong. I don't know if it's the sounds/samples that I'm using, or if it's the mixing/mastering, but I know I'm probably doing something wrong.

That mix is superb Bravo.

However, that I think is actually the problem ironically. I think it's perhaps too clean and too compressed to resemble an early 2000 track.

[chk071]

You know, what i always notice when listening to older stuff is that they didn't really use supersaws, rather sounds made with 2 or 3 oscillators. They used chorus, to make the sound thicker. They didn't layer (at all). And there are quite a few drum lines from the Roland drum machines, or others, rather than samples, which are used nowadays. Also, a cheap digital distortion effect will always come nice for a more old school sound.

Hope that helps a bit. BTW, your track sounds nice. I could well imagine it being produced... maybe 2004 or so. So, not far away.

And, Mushy Mushy is probably right. Maybe a bit too compressed.

[recursive one]

Very nice track, it definitely does capture that oldschool trance vibe overall.

I'd say less compression, more reverb or ping-pong delay. Also the synths don't really sound authentic, they sound, well, like software synths Like Synth1 of FL Studio stock synths, old trance was mostly made with hardware. It doesn't make your track any worse but it has different sonic imprint, i think because of that. Maybe iut's just me but I used to listen to that old trance (circa 1998-2008) a lot so I have a soft spot for the synth sounds they were using.

Actually, I'd really welcome the resurrection of oldschool trance. As cheesy and naive as it was, it was my gateway to electronic music in general. If we have synthwave and neo-goa, why can't we have "new oldschool trance"? At that I don't think the ultimate authencity in terms of sound and mixing is all that important, it should be more about the overall feel. Like your track actually

[TW1306]

I think it's perhaps too clean and too compressed to resemble an early 2000 track.

I'd say less compression,

Compression is still something I'm learning, so hopefully that'll improve over time.

Also the synths don't really sound authentic, they sound, well, like software synths Like Synth1 of FL Studio stock synths, old trance was mostly made with hardware. It doesn't make your track any worse but it has different sonic imprint, i think because of that.

I've gotten hold of a few emulations of older synths since making that track, but I wouldn't have any idea where to start with hardware - not to mention money. Although, I have toyed with the idea of searching for some (relatively) cheap older device and giving that a try.

Thank you all very much for the feedback as well, it's reassuring to know that I'm at least heading in the right direction.

[recursive one]

I just found some of my favourite tracks of that era on youtube and compared them to yours
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wxYEJJ-oGSU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mW7hYO4ekzI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B-XNIdZtsw4

Well, you are really not so far off man. I'd say relax you mater compressor/limiter a bit (your leads seem somehow damaged by compression), make your reverb a bit deeper, maybe add a tiny bit of tape saturation on the master channel or the busses but don't overdo that. Just import one of your favoutite tracks into your project, match the levels and try to minimize the sonic differences (they already are small).

You are definitely on the right track.

I don't think you need any hardware to get the sound you want. But using VSTis that were designed to emulate certain older synths would indeed help
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kilj4mWa3Tk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8c77wSYHpw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fow9byI ... adio=1&t=0

[blue monk]

I realise I might have been a bit vague in my original post, so here's the most recent track I've been able to finish:

https://soundcloud.com/spatial-sound/fl ... iginal-mix

I've found it a bit difficult to put what I'm thinking into words, but what I essentially mean is that to me, it doesn't sound like something that could genuinely have come from that time period (i.e. early 2000s). If someone were to play this in a classics mix, it'd be obvious that it didn't quite belong. I don't know if it's the sounds/samples that I'm using, or if it's the mixing/mastering, but I know I'm probably doing something wrong.

First of all: Pretty good work if you consider yourself a beginner. One thing that is not easy but important is keeping tension in the breakdown.

What I notice regarding your statement is first something regarding the sound: The Bassdrum seems too fat to me – which is subjective and I am not on a professional level with my own mixing. So take it with a grain of salt.
What could help a lot is for you to get one of those referencing plugins like Metric A/B at pluginalliance. You may get it for 30 USD in a sale or here on the KVR forum (sell and buy subforum).
Otherwise load reference tracks in an audio track in your DAW and compare directly to what you are doing. You will notice differences more quickly.

The other thing is that music is an expression of what the artist feels like. And that depends on the time you live in. If you are not living in 1998, your music will sound different.
What you can do, is finding the scale of a certain track and restrict yourself on that scale for one project. Then try another etc. until you have a feeling which scales work for you to get what you want.

I read some of the other comments. Someone suggested tape emulation plugins. I dont think you need that for Trance. Quite the opposite: A digital sound will help you get a more in your face sound.
You are not making Trip Hop.
Someone mentioned old sample CDs. I don’t think that will help you. Trance is not sample based. As drums go, you get top TR 909 samples from new sources.
You don’t need 100 single note sampled bass sounds from analog synths or useless vocal samples from movies and vinyl, or old break beat loops.


I think the Synth1 is great. I cant use it in Logic Pro. If it works on your system, use it. Sylenth1 should be very useful for your purposes, as well.

As "classic" Trance goes, I have to say that early Trance is really 1990 to 1992. If you listen to these tracks, you can understand why it is called Trance: It is about repetitive sequences more than pop-melodies. In 1993 at the latest, the melodic element becomes more dominant. There was no supersaw at the time. The Nord Lead 1 was released in 1995 and was the first virtual analog synth. Before that, you had ROMplers, real analog synths and FM synths.
In the early days, you had a lot of SH 101, TB 303, JD 800, various analog synths (Juno 106, Oberheim Matrix 6) and basically everything else. After the release of the JP 8000 in 1996, supersaw dominated the genre. But Trance in 1999 was a different genre really than 1993.

Ferry Corsten 1999: JP 8080, JP 8000, Alpha Juno, Yamaha FS1R
https://youtu.be/6PDpghZ-q5w?t=57


1990-1994:
https://youtu.be/5fiigjZh6SE
https://youtu.be/m7pYv6ZHmg4
https://youtu.be/xcpFQL9tzyM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bjyf-5ddjFA
https://youtu.be/jlcZUiLISmI
https://youtu.be/Z4Lsf0KsZfk
https://youtu.be/_-NsfhHZRZc
https://youtu.be/ydQYqtHtHaw
https://youtu.be/IhU5wEcPDH8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSqPEanNgac
https://youtu.be/vDbz5w6Oves
https://youtu.be/AMCtHMipFso
https://youtu.be/LegAVC5-cPI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_6GJ9ahaBk
https://youtu.be/-BKljfn5Jso?t=5
https://youtu.be/HfysuVhFlRw
https://youtu.be/0hKESmIV5V8
https://youtu.be/28Ho09yQhVA
https://youtu.be/wJq5DLMcaV8
https://youtu.be/t5sXoSFsW80
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mm7Z1s62DIQ
https://youtu.be/y_IHm7XOpek
https://youtu.be/y1bIGiB8yu4
https://youtu.be/YTQ2XBCnznI
https://youtu.be/V35b56mBpK8
https://youtu.be/qlsFL3GObrc
https://youtu.be/Vpdl5y6lSZ8
https://youtu.be/TbnzPSMtOzQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WohTQ6DZVFg
https://youtu.be/8onelJ88U8I
https://youtu.be/7NhOa2Z0lEI
https://youtu.be/idxgW0GgFqs
https://youtu.be/B5NP4LNTKfU
https://youtu.be/yHFCGrXIk3M
https://youtu.be/D9XmGhd1YK0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQJ8x8pkAg8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ns16wJ1ITdw
https://youtu.be/ilpnSKeO88Y
https://youtu.be/arKAesT3QeM
https://youtu.be/6eduts6w_Ss
https://youtu.be/-NZPDk5fxrc
https://youtu.be/S0c9aTOdzRo
https://youtu.be/0O3HDQLWaiE


1995-2000:
https://youtu.be/Fi_Yd8IWCVY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4966Z19UNs0
https://youtu.be/zKjYh8mp2l4
https://youtu.be/mNIlPzeim9g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mSrwA6YVOpg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2BOtV89q2U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bv8xDcb4vu4
https://youtu.be/xoCsoDd88-g
https://youtu.be/iDJXlC05lEA
https://youtu.be/-neNVbU2KpY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWcVHZxAedY
https://youtu.be/MP-CDBhY5EY
https://youtu.be/1EZKGR-1L3k
https://youtu.be/nUZS1MxtuKM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bNe-zN5ZZuA
https://youtu.be/aNEXZHDcbWo
https://youtu.be/m8NgYlvE2eI
https://youtu.be/-WH-Q0uok3c
https://youtu.be/h9DYuR_E7oc
https://youtu.be/RiIIteLQ3gQ
https://youtu.be/L0KokdO6WR4


2000-xxxx
https://youtu.be/3CLKOgJ0FDo
https://youtu.be/r0r05IfnGI4
https://youtu.be/3dAhGKRRfU4
https://youtu.be/MSrCqHirZJY
https://youtu.be/UF6F1iNc8fo
https://youtu.be/AA6a248RSdE
https://youtu.be/TS-EufGmsoE
https://youtu.be/0qt7jDMrdho
https://youtu.be/5iojMr3tHVA
https://youtu.be/YtY-WRuOUa4

[VELLTONE MUSIC]

i asked myself same questions years ago,then start dealing with sound design and now my taste is different,but if i understand right you like detuned supersaw sound the way it was generated with hardware synths till Sylenth1 in 2006,so you can use just any vst synth with 7 voices unison and you can have similar sound,personally i like 8-16 detuned voices unison more,cuz it's way more 'fat' sounding, but it's personal taste,there is few nice free synths that i'd like to recommend you,which after proper fx on them sound really dope:
1.Synth1
2.T-Force alpha
3.Voyager Arguru
4.Firebird
5.Tunefish
6.Tal noicemaker
7.Trancedrive
8.P8 Supersaw
I've got some old free soundbanks floating in the net,so if want search for them,there is some trance stuff inside.Cheerz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OvF41u1G2Kg