KVR Audio

sqigls · Post by **sqigls** » Tue Oct 08, 2019 12:16 am

yeah well said.

but i would go as far as saying i'll never give that company another cent.
even the several waves plugins i own go unused due to hard feelings.

it's taken me just over 20 years of using plugins to end up with a palette of colours i'm pretty happy with... companies who make all these NFR restrictions, and companies with convoluted authorisation and transfer systems - I don't care how good you are at coding, you eat balls and you f**king SUCK.

I think I've spent enough money to be allowed a little attitude leeway.
thousands of dollars of software devalued and not for resale. by design. ass munchers.

plexuss wrote: ↑Mon Oct 07, 2019 4:01 am
jochicago wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:40 pm I said this in a different conversation, but I think the trick is to separate plugin exploration from actual music making time.

So to learn and explore set up a test session and have fun with plugins. But when you are making music, decide upfront to only use stuff you already know. This allows you to move at good pace and get things done, without letting plugin experimentation and paralysis take over.
This is excellent advice. Learn to know when you are better off using something you know vs trying to work with something that isn't working out. then go back and do test sessions with the tools that were challenging and try and figure them out. sometimes you find tools that just dont work for you and can eliminated. as a side note, but relevant, this is why I personally prefer a flexible transfer policy over NFR (and high transfer fees) because it takes me time to determine if I'll use a tool on an ongoing basis. I dont often buy NFR tools unless I fully expect to not sell it or sell it for a large loss as with high transfer fees. This is why I no longer find myself buying Waves products anymore.

ozonepaul · Post by **ozonepaul** » Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:58 am

"Waves Plugins worth $0?"
I just watched Adam Hawkins working on the song Chlorine by Twenty One Pilot. Based on this, I guess the answer to the OP is no, it must worth way more than $0 (at least for Adam Hawking).

I would say more than half of the plugins used on this song are made by Waves, and he seems to be happy (and super efficient) using them.

PUREMIX Inside The Mix- twenty one pilots with Adam Hawkins
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYUEu50a4tM
https://www.puremix.net/video/inside-th ... wkins.html

Pingafuego · Post by **Pingafuego** » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:19 pm

There are lots of top engineers featuring Sound on Sound “Secrets of Mixing Engineers” articles showing how they mixed hit songs using lots of Waves plugins

Queen Bohemian Rhapsody soundtrack:

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniques ... soundtrack

jochicago · Post by **jochicago** » Tue Oct 08, 2019 10:38 pm

I use Waves plugins pretty often, and I'm hands down the best mixer in my household. Just yesterday I was using a Waves Puigchild in Mid/Side mode to knock 1db off a song on the master. I believe that's the super secret move to enter the ranks of the world's elite. Who's handing out the badges?

But seriously, Waves has been around quite a while and while not every plugin they make is great, over decades they've made some great tools. I'd expect anyone mixing professionally for more than a decade would have some Waves plugins available. Some people still think MV2 is the alpaca's pajamas.

LeVzi · Post by **LeVzi** » Wed Oct 09, 2019 4:30 am

I use waves plugins all over the place, I just bought a bunch more for various newer requirements and they are invalulable.

I would be lost without some of them tbh, I reach for the waves folder more than anything else.

simon.a.billington · Post by **simon.a.billington** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:54 am

jochicago wrote: ↑Sun Oct 06, 2019 4:40 pm I said this in a different conversation, but I think the trick is to separate plugin exploration from actual music making time.

So to learn and explore set up a test session and have fun with plugins. But when you are making music, decide upfront to only use stuff you already know. This allows you to move at good pace and get things done, without letting plugin experimentation and paralysis take over.

Yeah I learned that in my early days. It's the best way to go.

How I like to look any it these days is. Just after starting a new project I might do a bit of research, start getting some ideas and among that ideas for sounds and "tones". The next stage is to move on to doing a bit of sourcing/sound design before moving to writing and arranging

It can also kill a project if you spend too long doing that. So they key here is you're no t looking for ALL your sounds upfront or trying to be super accurate with them upfront. You just need enough bread and butter instruments that sound "close enough" to the direction you'd like to go. Then once you have the bulk of things written you can return to more sound design and tweaking your sounds to get them close.

By this time you would have weeded out any sounds you didn't end up using anyway. I can't tell you how many times I've gone into detail getting sounds really good, only to find the don't mesh with the mix or that you end up dropping the whole part from the arrangement entirely. If you have a quick and rough approximation, you don't end up waisting all that time, and you don't get as precious with it to the point you don't want to drop it, even though the mix on the whole will benefit greatly from that.

I liking the whole process of creating a song like an artist creating a painting. First they sketch out ideas with pencils, often on different pieces of paper and play around with arrangements, then they pencil the canvas, rough outlines, then details. Then its the broad use of mid-tone paints, then highlights and shadows, then details. The whole thing is very progressive and comes together over many passes. Songs are much easier to create when you take a very similar process.

It's a process I'm still working on, as I tend to get too easily caught up with details too soon. But I'd like to get there one day soon.

simon.a.billington · Post by **simon.a.billington** » Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:58 am

ozonepaul wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:58 am "Waves Plugins worth $0?"
I just watched Adam Hawkins working on the song Chlorine by Twenty One Pilot. Based on this, I guess the answer to the OP is no, it must worth way more than $0 (at least for Adam Hawking). I would say more than half of the plugins used on this song are made by Waves, and he seems to be happy (and super efficient) using them.

PUREMIX Inside The Mix- twenty one pilots with Adam Hawkins
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYUEu50a4tM
https://www.puremix.net/video/inside-th ... wkins.html

I'm willing to bet the Twenty One Pilots were happy with the results too. They ended up commercially releasing them, so they certainly had their careers invested in it!!

The Noodlist · Post by **The Noodlist** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 6:50 pm

Waves V11 introduced, the Renaissance have new GUI's, look bigger. A step in the right direction, not scaleable

A mix knob on the dynamics would have been useful.

reggie1979 · Post by **reggie1979** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:46 pm

Is anyone else weirded out by this "update" ???

The Noodlist · Post by **The Noodlist** » Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:57 pm

reggie1979 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:46 pm Is anyone else weirded out by this "update" ???

At first, Waves Central options need to looked at and adjusted.
The user can choose a default licence location.

Fleer · Post by **Fleer** » Tue Oct 29, 2019 12:57 am

Version 7=Nov. 2009
Version 8=Jan. 2011
Version 9=March 2012
Version 10=June 2018
Version 11=Oct. 2019

reggie1979 · Post by **reggie1979** » Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:42 am

Weird. Any significant upgrade reasons?

elxsound · Post by **elxsound** » Tue Oct 29, 2019 2:02 am

simon.a.billington wrote: ↑Sun Oct 20, 2019 11:58 am
ozonepaul wrote: ↑Tue Oct 08, 2019 7:58 am "Waves Plugins worth $0?"
I just watched Adam Hawkins working on the song Chlorine by Twenty One Pilot. Based on this, I guess the answer to the OP is no, it must worth way more than $0 (at least for Adam Hawking). I would say more than half of the plugins used on this song are made by Waves, and he seems to be happy (and super efficient) using them.

PUREMIX Inside The Mix- twenty one pilots with Adam Hawkins
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYUEu50a4tM
https://www.puremix.net/video/inside-th ... wkins.html
I'm willing to bet the Twenty One Pilots were happy with the results too. They ended up commercially releasing them, so they certainly had their careers invested in it!!

Who cares.

Could he have done it without Waves plugins? Yes. Yes, he could have.

We can all safely move away from waves at this point. Some might not want to... but they could if they needed to.

robotmonkey · Post by **robotmonkey** » Tue Oct 29, 2019 10:45 am

We could but why? There's literally no reason to. Waves plugins are as great and useful as they were and they are constantly adding new very high quality stuff.

simon.a.billington · Post by **simon.a.billington** » Wed Oct 30, 2019 1:47 pm

reggie1979 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 29, 2019 1:42 am Weird. Any significant upgrade reasons?

Catalina support MIGHT be one. I believe V11 is also required for the new SuperRack SoundGrid software. There’s no mention of an upgraded StudioRack, but but I’d say it’s on it’s way.

There’s quite possibly benefits that will reveal themselves as time goes on. For now I don’t need it, but possibly soon.