Email from Apple about Catalina :)

[MeldaProduction]

Fellow developers, you probably received it as well, just in case you didn't sharing it here, plus my response, in which I didn't really try to be nice anymore . I first thought they want to help us, then I realized they simply want to make a censorship and sort of force us to upgrade ... Impossible...

Hello:

I hope things are well. With macOS Catalina released, we’re checking Catalina readiness with our audio plugin developers and were hoping you might be able to say if you are ready to Catalina, and if not, when you might be.

If you are all set and ready to go, please let me know!

If you need a bit more time, please give me an idea of when you might be ready.

If you are thinking about a Catalina support statement, I just wanted to share some language in advance of any statement you might release for your products. We’re trying to make “don’t upgrade” language more neutral and have been sharing this with our wider developer community. We would appreciate the opportunity to provide any feedback to any public Catalina statements.

Please use:

“remain on current versions of macOS until further notice” or "continue to remain on macOS Mojave until further notice”

If you have 32-bit applications or components that are either not ready or will be EOL'd, please share this 32-bit transition language:
--------------------------
macOS 64-Bit Transition Developer Guidance
Apple began transitioning to 64-bit hardware and software technology for Mac over a decade ago, and all modern Macs now include powerful 64-bit processors that can run advanced 64-bit apps. Apple's transition to 64-bit technology is now complete. Starting with macOS Catalina, 32-bit apps are no longer compatible with macOS.

For Developers Working on Updating:
We are working with Apple to complete a 64-bit version of [software/app name], and will have an update to share soon. In the meantime, please note that [software/app name] will not work on macOS Catalina. If you wish to continue using this software/app, please continue to do so on macOS Mojave.

For Developers Discontinuing Their App:
[Software/app] for macOS is a 32-bit app that is not compatible with macOS Catalina, so the product is being discontinued. If you wish to continue using this software/app, please continue to do so on macOS Mojave.

Looking forward to hearing from the team and thanks!

Best Regards,

Michael


Hehe and my reply

Hi Michael,

first of all, sorry for the honesty. I'll be addressing Apple as you, for simplicity.
So let me get this straight - you first cause the biggest debacle in the history of modern IT by pounding compatibility problems and loads of work (for just reinventing the wheel as usual) on the developers instead of doing that yourself, and then you tell us how to talk about you, so that you look as the good guy despite you actually caused this madness in the first place and don't give a slightest damn about the software developers you are dependent on? Do you realize that is a pure good old censorship? Are we in North Korea?

When I quick-read your email for the first time, I thought "Ha! Apple wants to help us! Now that's new!" , but then I thought, nah, impossible, and I read it again .

Here's the thing - audio market is essentialy waiting. Most users reported they will be waiting at least a year before upgrading, which is a very logical thing to do. Once we, the developers, do your dirty laundry, we will have to stop supporting old systems and DAWs some users are still using. So the later we come on board the better. Maybe Apple could ask the developers next time before doing some rediculous move like this. Btw. and when you stop supporting OpenGL (which doesn't really work well already from Mojave and your awesome techsupport basically ended any investigation with "it does work in in GarageBand and Logic, so everything is fine"), you'll probably loose big part of the audio community altogether, or they will have to resort to software rendering, which will make your computers seem superslow.

Again sorry for the honesty, but I'm tired of trying to act like everything is fine.

[joshb]

Yet another thread?

Dude, just drop your Mac support and be done with it.

You can bet you won't get another dollar from me.

[fmr]

Yet another thread?

Dude, just drop your Mac support and be done with it.

You can bet you won't get another dollar from me.

And this bothers you because... ?

[MeldaProduction]

Yet another thread?

Dude, just drop your Mac support and be done with it.

You can bet you won't get another dollar from me.

And this bothers you because... ?

Because talking about Apple in negative way (even though they deserve it "biggly" ) is forbidden between some users . And even if it is in a dev forum . So much for Apple religion . Fortunately many Apple users have replied in a very positive way, so it's perhaps just a minority of these guys.

[machinesworking]

Yet another thread?

Dude, just drop your Mac support and be done with it.

You can bet you won't get another dollar from me.

And this bothers you because... ?

You really can't figure it out?

Melda has been posting nonsense about Apple since at least 5 years ago. This is nothing new.

No rational person in the audio community updates to the latest OS until every developer they care about gives an OK. This isn't any new thing, on the Windows side people used XP until they were forced not to. I'm not giving up my 09 Mac Pro, it's too powerful and too much money to replace with any PC or Mac, so I'm always going to have a 32 bit capable system. I think with how powerful computers have been for the last 7 years are, and the diminishing returns on hardware upgrades we've experienced in recent years this is even more so a non issue.

Apple has done far "worse" in the past, this is total hyperbole from someone who has an agenda. PPC to Intel, OS9 to OSX, these were much bigger things than 32 to 64, and signing.

Ask yourself why Apple might be doing this, this isn't a hard question. The obvious reason is that iOS and OS X are merging even more in Catalina, this means a whole slew of new security threats. A quick look through my OS gives me only a half dozen at most applications that are not 64 bit ready, 99% of the industry has already covered their bases, I'm not seeing a single plug in that's not 64 bit that isn't an older version like Amplitube 3.

The ironic part is he's self fulfilling his own hatred and demise as a OSX developer. He already stated 30% sales which is about 20% down from any developer I've ever talked to about this subject, and his latest tantrums are going to cost him probably at least another 5%. At some point his obvious uncomfortability on the mac platform will seem like pulling teeth to a level where he does stop developing on it.
It's like walking around saying the Brittish are violent and uncivilized, until some brit punches you, then loudly claiming you're right..

The confirmation bias is through the roof these days.

[Sampleconstruct]

Vojtech please calm down, don't waste time and energy fighting with the tiger.

[MeldaProduction]

machinesworking: You really like guessing, jumping to conclusions and spreading them, right? And you are not a developer, right? So you don't really know anything about the subject. Just imagine porting OpenGL to Metal? Just imagine telling your customers with ProTools 10 byebye, no more plugins / updates for you, out of our hands etc... Get your facts first, and reply, on a normal forum, where you belong (I presume).

[MeldaProduction]

Vojtech please calm down, don't waste time and energy fighting with the tiger.

You are right! But as a certain dev replied on another forum, Apple IS able to change their minds about certain things they mess up (to my own surprise). So it's worth fighting for!

[mladi]

Yet another thread?

Dude, just drop your Mac support and be done with it.

You can bet you won't get another dollar from me.

I just ordered from Melda to help them to compensate the massive loss caused by you.

[Sampleconstruct]

Vojtech please calm down, don't waste time and energy fighting with the tiger.

You are right! But as a certain dev replied on another forum, Apple IS able to change their minds about certain things they mess up (to my own surprise). So it's worth fighting for!

No, you're just waisting your time and reading your posts I get a feeling of precarious embarrassment.

[MeldaProduction]

Yet another thread?

Dude, just drop your Mac support and be done with it.

You can bet you won't get another dollar from me.

I just ordered from Melda to help them to compensate the massive loss caused by you.

Sampleconstruct: Well I know you are a Logic user, so you are probably a bit insulted as well. But just know that I really don't care about Apple or Logic or the users or anything, I may not be an Applist, since it's no my thing, but I can understand others feel differently. But it all doesn't change a thing in the way Apple is doing things and that most are not willing to speak up. So I am... Actually I received many letters about how people appreciate me speaking up. So it's not that I would be crazy . And if for you this means embarrasment, them I'll have to live with it I'm afraid

[Sampleconstruct]

As I tried to say, you're just fighting windmills. Get over it or just drop Mac support, you'll loose some customers (including myself) but you'll probably survive it. I'd suggest: stop being on a mission and focus on your work.

[MeldaProduction]

As I tried to say, you're just fighting windmills. Get over it or just drop Mac support, you'll loose some customers (including myself) but you'll probably survive it. I'd suggest: stop being on a mission and focus on your work.

I don't agree! If I would give up every time the world is against me, I'd be in an office working for someone now . And I feel obligated to Mac people, who bought the software. But it doesn't mean I'll let Apple s*** on my head so to speak

Btw. just tested Catalina, and while the installer killed the kernel, after reinstallation everything seems to work

[hugoderwolf]

You are right! But as a certain dev replied on another forum, Apple IS able to change their minds about certain things they mess up (to my own surprise). So it's worth fighting for!

So you mean, if you call them assholes often enough they'll eventually listen to you? I can't help but imagine that said other dev might have discussed matters directly, in a professional manner and at eye level instead of agitating publicly. The only pressure the letter creates is your elevated blood pressure. You might want to get that checked.

[machinesworking]

machinesworking: You really like guessing, jumping to conclusions and spreading them, right?

Pot calling the kettle black, it's an old english saying, look it up.

And you are not a developer, right? So you don't really know anything about the subject. Just imagine porting OpenGL to Metal? Just imagine telling your customers with ProTools 10 byebye, no more plugins / updates for you, out of our hands etc... Get your facts first, and reply, on a normal forum, where you belong (I presume).

This is where you come across like a total idiot. Sorry if that's rough, but do you really think you need to be a programmer to see a long term plan from Apple that isn't hidden from anyone? Metal was obviously their preferred choice, Open GL has been actively talked about being reduced to obsolescence for years and years.

Older versions of DAWs have constantly been depreciated, by the companies themselves, and the latest OS will always have an affect on that. Pro Tools moved past 10 a long time ago, this is a non issue. I can't use Live 3 on my system either, or Absynth 2. Guess what will work on Catalina? the latest version of Pro Tools.
New OS, new update to your DAW, not an issue. Especially since anyone with a working PT10 set up will just sit on it, and be happy.

In comparison, I have a 09 Mac Pro here, it's not Catalina capable, which in a way is great. It's too powerful of a computer to get rid of, it will run old 32 bit software, and it will work fine with VEP etc. talking to a laptop. With a more modern laptop I'm capable of using Catalina, and newer products in general etc. I'm not crying because Mojave is the end of the line.

What you're fighting is nothing new, you want a cross platform solution, and Apple has IMO very obviously mostly been aggressively against that. For what at times are good reasons. AU flatly came around because Windows ports of VSTs often were half backed, crashes were common, almost always related to GUI tweaking etc. Flatly we wouldn't have the AU debacle if VST Windows developers had taken any decent amount of time to port their plug ins, but they didn't and we have another annoying standard. Not you in particular, but people like you who are lazy, caused AU. Had VSTs not contained too much non Apple code and crashed all over the place you would be happier. So, in effect, Apple is forcing you to do more work because too many Windows developers ported poorly their products over, leaving non mac OS code that caused issues. (this obviously was partially Steinbergs fault as well)

Why do I know this? because a good friend and ex bandmate spent 20 years at Apple, working with Opcode at times, and the Emagic team etc.

I doubt you're going to win the Open GL issue, Apple want you to learn and use Metal, it's to their advantage that you know their preferred format, and in the end it's to my advantage as an end user. Formats that don't exploit the code written by the OS for the OS are stop gaps.

32 bit is going away, the first 64 bit capable chips were what? 15 years ago? I get it's not fun adjusting the back end of code, but damn? that's a huge amount of time to be thinking about doing it!

I wish you were happy I really do, but I see your complaints as total buckshot, you're not focusing in on anything, just whinging.
You've been jumping to conclusions as to why Apple is doing what they're doing all over this forum, and it's always 100% the worst reason you can think of for what they're doing.

Anway good luck I guess? but focus and precise complaints make a lot more sense. I give Tone 2 credit for calming down and trying that approach, might do you some good.