'Pharaoh's Dynasty' - Feedback Needed (New age, ambient)

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frank1985
KVRist
263 posts since 4 Jun, 2018 from Wiltshire, Uk

Post Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:39 pm

Occasionally a mix will come along that just makes me tear my hair out. Arrangement wise i'm happy with it, kind of, but there's something missing that I can't quite put my finger on.

REMIX 1 https://soundcloud.com/fc1985/pharaoh/s-QtWSn
REMIX 2 High's boosted a bit more https://soundcloud.com/fc1985/pharaohs- ... ix/s-sk1KL

ORIGINAL https://soundcloud.com/fc1985/desert-drifter/s-rxFGA
Last edited by frank1985 on Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:07 am, edited 4 times in total.

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wagtunes
KVRAF
17419 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: 'Pharaoh's Dynasty' - Feedback Needed (New age, ambient)

Post Sun Oct 20, 2019 1:09 pm

Okay, after listening to this, I went to your Soundcloud page and listened to some of your other tracks to see if I was experiencing a problem here or you simply did what you did with this track. All your other tracks sounded like how I expected them to sound. So the problem is with this track.

I am assuming that you meant for this track to be as soft as it is. And that's fine. The problem is, when you do a track this soft, it tends to end up kind of mid rangey. It doesn't breathe much. Maybe EQ out some of the mids and add a db or 2 to the 2k range and above. Maybe even raise the overall volume by a db or 2. Honestly, I could barely hear this track and my volumes are all set for normal listening.

In short, it just sounds a bit muddy in the middle. There's no air. At least to my ears.

Maybe somebody else can toss in their two cents. See if others think the volume is too low.

frank1985
KVRist
263 posts since 4 Jun, 2018 from Wiltshire, Uk

Re: 'Pharaoh's Dynasty' - Feedback Needed (New age, ambient)

Post Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:54 pm

Thanks for the feedback! ..i will go to work on the midrange then, and add more highs/air. For the latter, I can maybe transpose the center-right synth or Center-left flute up an octave...might throw things off balance though, in which case I’ll just boost what’s already there. Will give it a shot tomorrow.

I forgot to add a maximiser to the master channel, hence the low volume.

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wagtunes
KVRAF
17419 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: 'Pharaoh's Dynasty' - Feedback Needed (New age, ambient)

Post Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:57 pm

frank1985 wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:54 pm
Thanks for the feedback! ..i will go to work on the midrange then, and add more highs. It might actually be worth transposing the center-right synth, or Center-left flute up an octave...might throw things off balance though, in which case I’ll just boost what’s already there. Will give it a shot tomorrow.

I forgot to add a maximiser to the master channel, hence the low volume.
Add the maximizer first before you make any other adjustments. That will make it easier to detect the "problem."

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Benedict
KVRAF
3089 posts since 5 Mar, 2004 from Gold Coast Australia

Re: 'Pharaoh's Dynasty' - Feedback Needed (New age, ambient)

Post Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:45 pm

Yes waay too quiet. We know why on that one.

I think the reason is that you are fighting over what the piece is about. It feels like you want two sounds at once. Great if its a piece about being split, not so much if you want it to feel reassuring.

If you are open to having someone else in your cabbage patch, I would like to mix this on my Mix Walkthrough series and will let you have the mix so long as my credits stay with it.

:-)

frank1985
KVRist
263 posts since 4 Jun, 2018 from Wiltshire, Uk

Re: 'Pharaoh's Dynasty' - Feedback Needed (New age, ambient)

Post Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:41 am

wagtunes wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:57 pm
frank1985 wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:54 pm
Thanks for the feedback! ..i will go to work on the midrange then, and add more highs. It might actually be worth transposing the center-right synth, or Center-left flute up an octave...might throw things off balance though, in which case I’ll just boost what’s already there. Will give it a shot tomorrow.

I forgot to add a maximiser to the master channel, hence the low volume.
Add the maximizer first before you make any other adjustments. That will make it easier to detect the "problem."



REMIX 1 https://soundcloud.com/fc1985/pharaoh/s-QtWSn
REMIX 2 High's boosted a bit more https://soundcloud.com/fc1985/pharaohs- ... ix/s-sk1KL

ORIGINAL https://soundcloud.com/fc1985/desert-drifter/s-rxFGA

While I did boost the highs, I also literally ''added some air'' in the form of desert winds to contribute thematically to the song... :) Also tried cleaning up the mids by easing off the delays and using a less harmonically complex pad...

Benedict wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:45 pm
Yes waay too quiet. We know why on that one.

I think the reason is that you are fighting over what the piece is about. It feels like you want two sounds at once. Great if its a piece about being split, not so much if you want it to feel reassuring.

If you are open to having someone else in your cabbage patch, I would like to mix this on my Mix Walkthrough series and will let you have the mix so long as my credits stay with it.

:-)
I'm guessing by ''wanting two sounds at once'' you're referring to the flute and synth competing for attention....I did try to differentiate, yet at the same time make them compliment each other. Thanks for the offer...will the walkthrough series be on youtube? if so i'll have to pass because I will be uploading there and YT penalise "duplicate content" :(

frank1985
KVRist
263 posts since 4 Jun, 2018 from Wiltshire, Uk

Re: 'Pharaoh's Dynasty' - Feedback Needed (New age, ambient)

Post Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:15 pm

Remixed..

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jancivil
KVRAF
19147 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: 'Pharaoh's Dynasty' - Feedback Needed (New age, ambient)

Post Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:38 pm

general impression here, the original comes across as kind of washed-out color, the mids - lower mids - would benefit from saturation and the drums by attention to transients, need a bit of oomph or meatiness. You might could get some joy with Saturation Knob or one'a these gooderizers even.
Remix 2 to me wasn't a really musical mix with the boosts, my feeling was that's the opposite of what it needed, it seems to take on a kind of plastic (sorry for the UK people who this means something different to than it does here [/thread) brittleness

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Benedict
KVRAF
3089 posts since 5 Mar, 2004 from Gold Coast Australia

Re: 'Pharaoh's Dynasty' - Feedback Needed (New age, ambient)

Post Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:55 pm

frank1985 wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:41 am
I'm guessing by ''wanting two sounds at once'' you're referring to the flute and synth competing for attention....I did try to differentiate, yet at the same time make them compliment each other. Thanks for the offer...will the walkthrough series be on youtube? if so i'll have to pass because I will be uploading there and YT penalise "duplicate content" :(
Not quite so litoral. There is a sense that there is not a clear sense of what the piece is about. You had two sounds that didn't really gell.

Yes Mix Walkthroughs are on YT but there is no need to pass at all. I am not monetizing and will be clear where the content originates. If you make a claim against my vid, the worst outcome should be that any money that accrues off my vid goes to you.

The win for me is the ability to show my skills. We both get the win of Social Proof.

YouTube is fully understanding & accepting of using other songs etc. You just need to be clear - sometimes that means letting them know and if you are the originator you get the upper hand every time. I just got CD Baby to release my "Run From the Sun" album video. the only people who really get pummelled are those trying to make money from other people's work by sneakiness. My Mix Walkthrough vids do none of that in any way.

:-)

frank1985
KVRist
263 posts since 4 Jun, 2018 from Wiltshire, Uk

Re: 'Pharaoh's Dynasty' - Feedback Needed (New age, ambient)

Post Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:43 am

Benedict wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:55 pm
frank1985 wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:41 am
I'm guessing by ''wanting two sounds at once'' you're referring to the flute and synth competing for attention....I did try to differentiate, yet at the same time make them compliment each other. Thanks for the offer...will the walkthrough series be on youtube? if so i'll have to pass because I will be uploading there and YT penalise "duplicate content" :(
Not quite so litoral. There is a sense that there is not a clear sense of what the piece is about. You had two sounds that didn't really gell.

Yes Mix Walkthroughs are on YT but there is no need to pass at all. I am not monetizing and will be clear where the content originates. If you make a claim against my vid, the worst outcome should be that any money that accrues off my vid goes to you.

The win for me is the ability to show my skills. We both get the win of Social Proof.

YouTube is fully understanding & accepting of using other songs etc. You just need to be clear - sometimes that means letting them know and if you are the originator you get the upper hand every time. I just got CD Baby to release my "Run From the Sun" album video. the only people who really get pummelled are those trying to make money from other people's work by sneakiness. My Mix Walkthrough vids do none of that in any way.

:-)
Gutted i couldn't work this out myself (still waiting on the AWOL Wagtunes for his opinion on the remixes - i guess silence speakers louder than words) - but I will PM you a link to the stems anyway

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wagtunes
KVRAF
17419 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: 'Pharaoh's Dynasty' - Feedback Needed (New age, ambient)

Post Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:51 am

frank1985 wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:41 am
wagtunes wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:57 pm
frank1985 wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:54 pm
Thanks for the feedback! ..i will go to work on the midrange then, and add more highs. It might actually be worth transposing the center-right synth, or Center-left flute up an octave...might throw things off balance though, in which case I’ll just boost what’s already there. Will give it a shot tomorrow.

I forgot to add a maximiser to the master channel, hence the low volume.
Add the maximizer first before you make any other adjustments. That will make it easier to detect the "problem."



REMIX 1 https://soundcloud.com/fc1985/pharaoh/s-QtWSn
REMIX 2 High's boosted a bit more https://soundcloud.com/fc1985/pharaohs- ... ix/s-sk1KL

ORIGINAL https://soundcloud.com/fc1985/desert-drifter/s-rxFGA

While I did boost the highs, I also literally ''added some air'' in the form of desert winds to contribute thematically to the song... :) Also tried cleaning up the mids by easing off the delays and using a less harmonically complex pad...

Benedict wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:45 pm
Yes waay too quiet. We know why on that one.

I think the reason is that you are fighting over what the piece is about. It feels like you want two sounds at once. Great if its a piece about being split, not so much if you want it to feel reassuring.

If you are open to having someone else in your cabbage patch, I would like to mix this on my Mix Walkthrough series and will let you have the mix so long as my credits stay with it.

:-)
I'm guessing by ''wanting two sounds at once'' you're referring to the flute and synth competing for attention....I did try to differentiate, yet at the same time make them compliment each other. Thanks for the offer...will the walkthrough series be on youtube? if so i'll have to pass because I will be uploading there and YT penalise "duplicate content" :(
Much better. But I can't tell the difference between 1 and 2 because my hearing over 5k is shot. But much better. Infinitely better.

frank1985
KVRist
263 posts since 4 Jun, 2018 from Wiltshire, Uk

Re: 'Pharaoh's Dynasty' - Feedback Needed (New age, ambient)

Post Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:53 am

wagtunes wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:51 am
frank1985 wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:41 am
wagtunes wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:57 pm
frank1985 wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:54 pm
Thanks for the feedback! ..i will go to work on the midrange then, and add more highs. It might actually be worth transposing the center-right synth, or Center-left flute up an octave...might throw things off balance though, in which case I’ll just boost what’s already there. Will give it a shot tomorrow.

I forgot to add a maximiser to the master channel, hence the low volume.
Add the maximizer first before you make any other adjustments. That will make it easier to detect the "problem."



REMIX 1 https://soundcloud.com/fc1985/pharaoh/s-QtWSn
REMIX 2 High's boosted a bit more https://soundcloud.com/fc1985/pharaohs- ... ix/s-sk1KL

ORIGINAL https://soundcloud.com/fc1985/desert-drifter/s-rxFGA

While I did boost the highs, I also literally ''added some air'' in the form of desert winds to contribute thematically to the song... :) Also tried cleaning up the mids by easing off the delays and using a less harmonically complex pad...

Benedict wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:45 pm
Yes waay too quiet. We know why on that one.

I think the reason is that you are fighting over what the piece is about. It feels like you want two sounds at once. Great if its a piece about being split, not so much if you want it to feel reassuring.

If you are open to having someone else in your cabbage patch, I would like to mix this on my Mix Walkthrough series and will let you have the mix so long as my credits stay with it.

:-)
I'm guessing by ''wanting two sounds at once'' you're referring to the flute and synth competing for attention....I did try to differentiate, yet at the same time make them compliment each other. Thanks for the offer...will the walkthrough series be on youtube? if so i'll have to pass because I will be uploading there and YT penalise "duplicate content" :(
Much better. But I can't tell the difference between 1 and 2 because my hearing over 5k is shot. But much better. Infinitely better.
There he is! Thanks - to me something's still missing, we'll call it factor x....so it's off to benedict for him to work some magic on

frank1985
KVRist
263 posts since 4 Jun, 2018 from Wiltshire, Uk

Re: 'Pharaoh's Dynasty' - Feedback Needed (New age, ambient)

Post Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:56 am

jancivil wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 4:38 pm
general impression here, the original comes across as kind of washed-out color, the mids - lower mids - would benefit from saturation and the drums by attention to transients, need a bit of oomph or meatiness. You might could get some joy with Saturation Knob or one'a these gooderizers even.
Remix 2 to me wasn't a really musical mix with the boosts, my feeling was that's the opposite of what it needed, it seems to take on a kind of plastic (sorry for the UK people who this means something different to than it does here [/thread) brittleness
thank you for listening, and for the honest feedback!

User avatar
wagtunes
KVRAF
17419 posts since 8 Oct, 2014

Re: 'Pharaoh's Dynasty' - Feedback Needed (New age, ambient)

Post Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:58 am

frank1985 wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:53 am
wagtunes wrote:
Tue Oct 22, 2019 5:51 am
frank1985 wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:41 am
wagtunes wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:57 pm
frank1985 wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 2:54 pm
Thanks for the feedback! ..i will go to work on the midrange then, and add more highs. It might actually be worth transposing the center-right synth, or Center-left flute up an octave...might throw things off balance though, in which case I’ll just boost what’s already there. Will give it a shot tomorrow.

I forgot to add a maximiser to the master channel, hence the low volume.
Add the maximizer first before you make any other adjustments. That will make it easier to detect the "problem."



REMIX 1 https://soundcloud.com/fc1985/pharaoh/s-QtWSn
REMIX 2 High's boosted a bit more https://soundcloud.com/fc1985/pharaohs- ... ix/s-sk1KL

ORIGINAL https://soundcloud.com/fc1985/desert-drifter/s-rxFGA

While I did boost the highs, I also literally ''added some air'' in the form of desert winds to contribute thematically to the song... :) Also tried cleaning up the mids by easing off the delays and using a less harmonically complex pad...

Benedict wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:45 pm
Yes waay too quiet. We know why on that one.

I think the reason is that you are fighting over what the piece is about. It feels like you want two sounds at once. Great if its a piece about being split, not so much if you want it to feel reassuring.

If you are open to having someone else in your cabbage patch, I would like to mix this on my Mix Walkthrough series and will let you have the mix so long as my credits stay with it.

:-)
I'm guessing by ''wanting two sounds at once'' you're referring to the flute and synth competing for attention....I did try to differentiate, yet at the same time make them compliment each other. Thanks for the offer...will the walkthrough series be on youtube? if so i'll have to pass because I will be uploading there and YT penalise "duplicate content" :(
Much better. But I can't tell the difference between 1 and 2 because my hearing over 5k is shot. But much better. Infinitely better.
There he is! Thanks - to me something's still missing, we'll call it factor x....so it's off to benedict for him to work some magic on
If I had to take a guess at what's missing, it's the stereo field. It feels stunted. Like it's slightly in a box and wants to get out. Maybe play around with some of the panning or use some side chain compression on some of the pads. Sometimes that's all it takes.

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Benedict
KVRAF
3089 posts since 5 Mar, 2004 from Gold Coast Australia

Re: 'Pharaoh's Dynasty' - Feedback Needed (New age, ambient)

Post Sat Oct 26, 2019 11:18 pm

Here is my mix of frank1985 "Pharaoh's Dynasty" on my Mix Walkthrough series. There is so much more texture and space in the track now.
https://youtu.be/UBfPIA-PDk8
:-)

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