Email from Apple about Catalina :)

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machinesworking wrote: Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:00 pmApple has done far "worse" in the past, this is total hyperbole from someone who has an agenda. PPC to Intel, OS9 to OSX, these were much bigger things than 32 to 64, and signing.
If Apple hadn't pushed USB, I betcha PCs would still have an RS232 and a serial bus. Oh, the outcry when Apple abandoned Floppy Disks. The wrath when Apple introduced a 40MB hard drive which cost ten times as much as a floppy drive (was it in 1984?), because who will ever need that much storage?

Don't we all miss those <sarcams>wonderfully engineered</sarcasm> flash-based websites?

Now. Why is there Vulcan when OpenGL did the job just fine? Because, it didn't. So why cling to a concept that has been developed long before current GPU paradigms when there are far superior alternatives which actually save energy and utilise features not otherwise accessible? And let's give people 10 years to figure it out.

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That is correct, without Apple inc's innovations we would not be here today.
{"panic_string":"BAD MAGIC! :shrug: (flag set in iBoot panic header), no macOS panic log available"} "Apple did not respond to a request for comment."

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Urs wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:27 am If Apple hadn't pushed USB, I betcha PCs would still have an RS232 and a serial bus.
Actually, Apple didnt "push" USB. The pushed FireWire, which they did abandon pretty fast. They are now pushing Thunderbolt (which is from Intel), while PC vendors are mainly still betting in a faster USB.

USB was supported more or less at the same time by Macs and PCs in the beginning, but Apple was always with a foot in and a foot out, while PCs did far more for USB than Apple did.

PC vendors are much more careful introducing "innovations", that's true, and they keep compatibility with older formats for longer. I can hardly see this as a "con".
Last edited by fmr on Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.
Fernando (FMR)

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fmr wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:45 am
Urs wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:27 am If Apple hadn't pushed USB, I betcha PCs would still have an RS232 and a serial bus.
Actually, Apple didnt "push" USB. The pushed FireWire, which they did abandon pretty fast. They are now pushing Thunderbolt, while PC vendors are mainly still betting in a faster USB.

USB was supported more or less at the same time by Macs and PCs in the beginning, but Apple was always with a foot in and a foot out, while PCs did far more for USB than Apple did.
I think it was Intel, MS, and bunch of other companies who started with the usb standard. Apple inc not included. Like you said, they wanted their own, firewire.
{"panic_string":"BAD MAGIC! :shrug: (flag set in iBoot panic header), no macOS panic log available"} "Apple did not respond to a request for comment."

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Haptix wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:48 am
fmr wrote: Actually, Apple didnt "push" USB. The pushed FireWire, which they did abandon pretty fast. They are now pushing Thunderbolt (which is from Intel), while PC vendors are mainly still betting in a faster USB.

USB was supported more or less at the same time by Macs and PCs in the beginning, but Apple was always with a foot in and a foot out, while PCs did far more for USB than Apple did.
I think it was Intel, MS, and bunch of other companies who started with the usb standard. Apple inc not included. Like you said, they wanted their own, firewire.
Yes... Token from Wikipedia:

"A group of seven companies began the development of USB in 1994: Compaq, DEC, IBM, Intel, Microsoft, NEC, and Nortel. The goal was to make it fundamentally easier to connect external devices to PCs by replacing the multitude of connectors at the back of PCs, addressing the usability issues of existing interfaces, and simplifying software configuration of all devices connected to USB, as well as permitting greater data rates for external devices."

Even Thunderbolt is from Intel, NOT Apple. So much for Apple "innovation"... :hihi:
Fernando (FMR)

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At least they gave us the MP3 player, the smartphone and the tablet PC..... didn't they?

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And iTunes, god I miss that shait. Simplicity and elegant - SJ. Never ever I have encountered more difficult and hassle to import new files from device to device. ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff....
{"panic_string":"BAD MAGIC! :shrug: (flag set in iBoot panic header), no macOS panic log available"} "Apple did not respond to a request for comment."

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What you're fighting is nothing new, you want a cross platform solution, and Apple has IMO very obviously mostly been aggressively against that. For what at times are good reasons. AU flatly came around because Windows ports of VSTs often were half backed, crashes were common, almost always related to GUI tweaking etc. Flatly we wouldn't have the AU debacle if VST Windows developers had taken any decent amount of time to port their plug ins, but they didn't and we have another annoying standard. Not you in particular, but people like you who are lazy, caused AU. Had VSTs not contained too much non Apple code and crashed all over the place you would be happier. So, in effect, Apple is forcing you to do more work because too many Windows developers ported poorly their products over, leaving non mac OS code that caused issues. (this obviously was partially Steinbergs fault as well)
That's not correct - Apple wanted control of the standard when they moved to OS X, probably because Steinberg made it clear they were never interested in VST being an open standard or a community-driven process. There is nothing whatsoever inherent to AU architecture which makes it more resilient to "crashes from GUI tweaking". At best, AU is a speed-hump: by making things slightly more difficult, some of the (allegedly) "lazy" developers might drop out before they reach the finish line.

There is much to dislike about their current approach to Catalina - notarization in particular which starts as a simple malware scan will doubtless expand to "Nope, that API is deprecated - we won't sign your code." - it represents an unprecedented, in the history of any computing platform, transfer of power and control away from developers and to the platform vendor. Even IBM in the '70s or Microsoft in the early '00s wouldn't have dared to pull a stunt like that. Nevertheless, as regards AU, if you look at Steinberg's stewardship of VST over the longer term, Apple made the right call in developing their own standard.
This account is dormant, I am no longer employed by FXpansion / ROLI.

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Uhm, guys... Apple was the first one to replace serial ports for USB, for mice, keyboards and pretty much all other peripherals. Even though it wasn't their own technology.

They added Firewire in ordert to have something that worked for higher data rates than USB could handle. Video in particular.

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Urs wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:07 am Uhm, guys... Apple was the first one to replace serial ports for USB, for mice, keyboards and pretty much all other peripherals. Even though it wasn't their own technology.

They added Firewire in ordert to have something that worked for higher data rates than USB could handle. Video in particular.
Now you are just confused, Apple was the first consumer computer to discontinue legacy ports.
Last edited by Haptix on Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
{"panic_string":"BAD MAGIC! :shrug: (flag set in iBoot panic header), no macOS panic log available"} "Apple did not respond to a request for comment."

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Urs wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:07 am Uhm, guys... Apple was the first one to replace serial ports for USB, for mice, keyboards and pretty much all other peripherals. Even though it wasn't their own technology.

They added Firewire in ordert to have something that worked for higher data rates than USB could handle. Video in particular.
Yes, they may have been the first (barely). But they did little to nothing for the protocol. If it wasn't for the other vendors (particularly the big ones, like Dell, HP, Microsot, Intel, etc.) USB wouldn't have evolved from v1. Now we are at v3, and will possibly see a v4 sometime in the future. Nothing of that can be accountable to Apple. Actually, they have been doing their best to remove it from their devices, which, in what concerns mobile phones, is even illegal in Europe, AFAIK (but somehow they have been escaping from sanctions)
Last edited by fmr on Mon Oct 21, 2019 1:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Fernando (FMR)

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They're good at innovating some things mind, like a mouse you can't use whilst it charges:

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"Just bend over" - Apple

"Design is not just about the looks, its about usability" - Apple
{"panic_string":"BAD MAGIC! :shrug: (flag set in iBoot panic header), no macOS panic log available"} "Apple did not respond to a request for comment."

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mcbpete wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2019 11:24 am They're good at innovating some things mind, like a mouse you can't use whilst it charges:

Image
:D

Quite frankly discussing who liked usb more seems pathetic (especially since Apple wasn't included). Progress is needed, but needs to be done smartly.
E. G. Next step in car industry are electric cars, but you will hardly ban all gas engines right now, right? Apple would, so ask yourself if that would work well.
Vojtech
MeldaProduction MSoundFactory MDrummer MCompleteBundle The best plugins in the world :D

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That picture makes sad for some reason.
{"panic_string":"BAD MAGIC! :shrug: (flag set in iBoot panic header), no macOS panic log available"} "Apple did not respond to a request for comment."

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