Realistic solo violin

Share your music, collaborate, and partake in monthly music contests.
User avatar
Hink
Rad Grandad
29568 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine

Post Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:28 am

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:07 pm
Personally, I think the less said, by way of introduction, the better. At least, to allow people to judge on the strength of the pieces alone, which I thought were far more worthy than to just serve as tech demos :tu:

Really enjoyed both pieces.

Great job :tu:
does that mean the debate is basically a result of gas? I mean, we get excited about our gear so we want to tell the world all the cool stuff we did thus listing all we used in our productions when we post it...maybe we should just stfu?
Albert Einstein may have been a genius but his brother Frank was a monster

User avatar
el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
14940 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Realistic solo violin

Post Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:01 am

Hink wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:28 am
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:07 pm
Personally, I think the less said, by way of introduction, the better. At least, to allow people to judge on the strength of the pieces alone, which I thought were far more worthy than to just serve as tech demos :tu:

Really enjoyed both pieces.

Great job :tu:
does that mean the debate is basically a result of gas? I mean, we get excited about our gear so we want to tell the world all the cool stuff we did thus listing all we used in our productions when we post it...maybe we should just stfu?
I started my post with "Personally", to make it clear that this was my own personal, subjective opinion. Not telling anyone that they shouldn't get excited about their gear, and certainly not telling anybody to "stfu".

I also thought it was clear what I meant with "by way of introduction". I didn't suggest that the op was not to speak about it, at all. Just that I thought by introducing the two pieces in such a way, it pulled focus towards judging sample realism and editing prowess, and away from judging the music on it's own merits, which inevitably would have led to questions about which library had been used, and how he/she had managed to coax such a great performance out of sampled instruments etc.

If for nothing other than to gauge the audience's true reaction, I think it would have been worthwhile holding back with the technicalities; at least for a little while.

Just an opinion, though :tu:

mediumaevum
KVRist
202 posts since 14 Feb, 2013

Re: Realistic solo violin

Post Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:33 am

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:01 am
I started my post with "Personally", to make it clear that this was my own personal, subjective opinion. Not telling anyone that they shouldn't get excited about their gear, and certainly not telling anybody to "stfu".

I also thought it was clear what I meant with "by way of introduction". I didn't suggest that the op was not to speak about it, at all. Just that I thought by introducing the two pieces in such a way, it pulled focus towards judging sample realism and editing prowess, and away from judging the music on it's own merits, which inevitably would have led to questions about which library had been used, and how he/she had managed to coax such a great performance out of sampled instruments etc.

If for nothing other than to gauge the audience's true reaction, I think it would have been worthwhile holding back with the technicalities; at least for a little while.

Just an opinion, though :tu:
I'm glad you and other people in this thread like my compositions. Your comments inspired me to produce and upload more. See Original Post.

Will eventually upload some of them on my youtube-channel with video.

User avatar
el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
14940 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Realistic solo violin

Post Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:43 am

mediumaevum wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:33 am
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:01 am
I started my post with "Personally", to make it clear that this was my own personal, subjective opinion. Not telling anyone that they shouldn't get excited about their gear, and certainly not telling anybody to "stfu".

I also thought it was clear what I meant with "by way of introduction". I didn't suggest that the op was not to speak about it, at all. Just that I thought by introducing the two pieces in such a way, it pulled focus towards judging sample realism and editing prowess, and away from judging the music on it's own merits, which inevitably would have led to questions about which library had been used, and how he/she had managed to coax such a great performance out of sampled instruments etc.

If for nothing other than to gauge the audience's true reaction, I think it would have been worthwhile holding back with the technicalities; at least for a little while.

Just an opinion, though :tu:
I'm glad you and other people in this thread like my compositions. Your comments inspired me to produce and upload more. See Original Post.

Will eventually upload some of them on my youtube-channel with video.
Just enjoying for a second time, and now following on Soundcloud :tu:

User avatar
jancivil
KVRAF
19164 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Realistic solo violin

Post Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:07 am

"the debate" - there is no debate, there is someone who didn't like what I wrote in critique saying 'the debate', there is no reality to <people who really play piano/drums will complain about 'you used samples' (civilians never notice)>; which is the opposite of my experience presenting what I did to virtuoso exponents of, funnily enough these exact two instruments the most frequently. I will see 'great drum programming' here, out there it's 'You're also a gifted drummer'.
First time I hired a super-virtuoso who charges real $ for a part, he was astonished my lead guitar track in the compo was a sample library. And it was Sonic Couture EBow Guitar (ca 2009) at that, it isn't that you're going to get "realism" just out of buying the thing.
It's the PART that convinces, your attack, your phrasing, your attitude/your energy. Is it like what the instrumentalist does, for real?

Then, here there was this tremolando which may as well have been 100 violins it was so huge, right near the beginning.
Expectations are hard to manage, do you (Universal 'you') want feedback to take you to the next step or just plain validation. (and BTW, this *is* a little more 'medieval' in style than previous tracks)

KVR is not the World; people only care to say shite like that here or mayhaps the other forum. The people who find this necessary difference are making an excuse for their chops as far as I know.
Last edited by jancivil on Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Hink
Rad Grandad
29568 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine

Re: Realistic solo violin

Post Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:16 am

el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:01 am
Hink wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:28 am
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:07 pm
Personally, I think the less said, by way of introduction, the better. At least, to allow people to judge on the strength of the pieces alone, which I thought were far more worthy than to just serve as tech demos :tu:

Really enjoyed both pieces.

Great job :tu:
does that mean the debate is basically a result of gas? I mean, we get excited about our gear so we want to tell the world all the cool stuff we did thus listing all we used in our productions when we post it...maybe we should just stfu?
I started my post with "Personally", to make it clear that this was my own personal, subjective opinion. Not telling anyone that they shouldn't get excited about their gear, and certainly not telling anybody to "stfu".

I also thought it was clear what I meant with "by way of introduction". I didn't suggest that the op was not to speak about it, at all. Just that I thought by introducing the two pieces in such a way, it pulled focus towards judging sample realism and editing prowess, and away from judging the music on it's own merits, which inevitably would have led to questions about which library had been used, and how he/she had managed to coax such a great performance out of sampled instruments etc.

If for nothing other than to gauge the audience's true reaction, I think it would have been worthwhile holding back with the technicalities; at least for a little while.

Just an opinion, though :tu:
huge apologies, my intent was to expand on a thought not trying to put words in your mouth.."stfu" was my choice and an unfortunate one. I am saying that perhaps we should just stop telling people what we used and they might not know. I feel however the bigger issue is we cant stop talking about our gear :lol:

Again apologies for the confusion :)
Albert Einstein may have been a genius but his brother Frank was a monster

User avatar
jancivil
KVRAF
19164 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Realistic solo violin

Post Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:34 am

fastlanephil wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 7:48 pm
I thought the violins sounded pretty realistic for a VI. I don't think they sounded realistic as in a recorded live stage or studio recording as the sounds are of course by then second generation.
The secondhandedness of the medium is a convenient place to point a finger but it's not necessarily relevant as all of it can be addressed in mixing. You become aware of the stage you're presenting the 'performance' in and use the information.

I never could find enough money at one time to buy VSL MIR Pro so I use Hybrid Reverb. The former means multiple impulse responses (Ambisonics is the name of the tech), which works to properly stage reflections from the virtual orchestra as pertains to this or another model of a concert hall or like environs.

I give very focused instrumental profiles to Hybrid, and gauge how diffuse that/those instrument(s) apply to that particular stage (even if for hyperrealism); but the comparatively simple use of a power panner (preserving some determination of pan law, 0db, -3 etc) works to narrow the stereo field to suit some notion of the use of space. The presets for your lead violin things in VSL's Power Panner narrow the field down to *nothing* in order to get the impression of <in the front>, for instance; aware of the size of the violin, no preset is going to be wide open. It's common sense, it's not rocket surgery.

Common rookie mistake, everything is the same size in one non-descript space. I committed that one over and over for a couple of years!

User avatar
jancivil
KVRAF
19164 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Realistic solo violin

Post Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:44 am

"I thought by introducing the two pieces in such a way, it pulled focus towards judging sample realism and editing prowess, and away from judging the music on it's own merits"

Point taken, but I don't go into any Cafe thread to judge musical merit; this music isn't for me at all; but I'd bet maevum probably really nailed that for himself anyway. It's not really orchestral music, it's something I have no reason to judge aesthetically... life is short, you know.

mediumaevum
KVRist
202 posts since 14 Feb, 2013

Re: Realistic solo violin

Post Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:05 am

jancivil wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:44 am
"I thought by introducing the two pieces in such a way, it pulled focus towards judging sample realism and editing prowess, and away from judging the music on it's own merits"

Point taken, but I don't go into any Cafe thread to judge musical merit; this music isn't for me at all; but I'd bet maevum probably really nailed that for himself anyway. It's not really orchestral music, it's something I have no reason to judge aesthetically... life is short, you know.

"It's not really orchestral music"
...

I'm a bit confused. For what reasons is this not orchestral music? For the simple fact that no real orchestra played the music? Then you're absolutely right.

If you're speaking on behalf of the arrangement, composition etc.... what constitutes "orchestral music" then if none of the three tracks I posted in the OP are to be regarded as orchestral?

And please don't get me wrong. I like critique. But statements without explanations (arguments) is not critique... it's just "I don't like it."

And I'm totally fine with you or anyone else not liking my music. There's a lot of music I don't like either. But I would never say "This type of music is not orchestral" without explaining why.

Of course I see that the "medieval"-piece (not really medieval anyway, it's more "filmic" in lack of other words) is not really orchestral as such. It's too short, not enough instruments and don't adhere to the rules of classical music anyway.

But then again one have to explain those rules of classical music. And as far as I'm informed about the rules, they have been changing over time.

Would you say that Ola Gjeilo's orchestral and choral masterpieces are neither orchestral nor choral for the reasons they do not adhere to the 19th century style of music concerning dissonances?

Well, of course they don't adhere to the old rules. The harmonies are too modern. But it's still classical.

Then you only have one card left to play: The Haydn-card. Haydn invented the classical orchestra, so every orchestral music has to adhere to the rules by Haydn.

But what's the point?

User avatar
el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
14940 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Realistic solo violin

Post Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:08 am

Hink wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:16 am
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 7:01 am
Hink wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 6:28 am
el-bo (formerly ebow) wrote:
Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:07 pm
Personally, I think the less said, by way of introduction, the better. At least, to allow people to judge on the strength of the pieces alone, which I thought were far more worthy than to just serve as tech demos :tu:

Really enjoyed both pieces.

Great job :tu:
does that mean the debate is basically a result of gas? I mean, we get excited about our gear so we want to tell the world all the cool stuff we did thus listing all we used in our productions when we post it...maybe we should just stfu?
I started my post with "Personally", to make it clear that this was my own personal, subjective opinion. Not telling anyone that they shouldn't get excited about their gear, and certainly not telling anybody to "stfu".

I also thought it was clear what I meant with "by way of introduction". I didn't suggest that the op was not to speak about it, at all. Just that I thought by introducing the two pieces in such a way, it pulled focus towards judging sample realism and editing prowess, and away from judging the music on it's own merits, which inevitably would have led to questions about which library had been used, and how he/she had managed to coax such a great performance out of sampled instruments etc.

If for nothing other than to gauge the audience's true reaction, I think it would have been worthwhile holding back with the technicalities; at least for a little while.

Just an opinion, though :tu:
huge apologies, my intent was to expand on a thought not trying to put words in your mouth.."stfu" was my choice and an unfortunate one. I am saying that perhaps we should just stop telling people what we used and they might not know. I feel however the bigger issue is we cant stop talking about our gear :lol:

Again apologies for the confusion :)
It's cool. We just seem to be arguing at cross-purposes (Which is bizarre, as my communications with the rest of KVR, as of late, have seemed to be going very smoothly :o :o :lol: :lol: :lol: )

And you should've worked out by now that a "stfu", even in non-acronym form wouldn't have offended me. But good that you didn't think my position was that everybody should stfu.

Anyway, it seems we agree that we should stop telling people what we used, until asked. My position is definitely informed by my own experience of over-egging introductions, loading then with caveats, disclaimers, and generally undermining my own work before anyone else gets to. It's something i've been thinking about a lot, to the point that I won't even be pressed to give a genre. It's just music :tu:

And no! We shouldn't stop talking about gear. It's what KVR is all about.

User avatar
Hink
Rad Grandad
29568 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine

Re: Realistic solo violin

Post Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:34 am

And you should've worked out by now that a "stfu", even in non-acronym form wouldn't have offended me.
I will go to my room for a reset :oops: :hihi:
Albert Einstein may have been a genius but his brother Frank was a monster

dellboy
KVRian
1075 posts since 28 Mar, 2007

Re: Realistic solo violin

Post Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:38 am

mediumaevum wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:05 am


I'm a bit confused. For what reasons is this not orchestral music? For the simple fact that no real orchestra played the music? Then you're absolutely right.

For what its worth my workshop radio is tuned into BBC radio 3 which is entirely classical music. Its on in the background all day and your music would fit into what I would expect to hear on that radio channel.

User avatar
el-bo (formerly ebow)
KVRAF
14940 posts since 24 May, 2009 from A galaxy, far far away

Re: Realistic solo violin

Post Mon Oct 21, 2019 9:55 am

jancivil wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:44 am
"I thought by introducing the two pieces in such a way, it pulled focus towards judging sample realism and editing prowess, and away from judging the music on it's own merits"

Point taken, but I don't go into any Cafe thread to judge musical merit; this music isn't for me at all; but I'd bet maevum probably really nailed that for himself anyway. It's not really orchestral music, it's something I have no reason to judge aesthetically... life is short, you know.
Certainly short enough to not waste time posting about things for which we have little interest :shrug:

User avatar
Aloysius
KVRAF
25008 posts since 11 Aug, 2008 from another dimension

Re: Realistic solo violin

Post Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:21 am

Realistic solo violin

Image
Hi-de-Hi!

dellboy
KVRian
1075 posts since 28 Mar, 2007

Re: Realistic solo violin

Post Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:52 am

Aloysius wrote:
Mon Oct 21, 2019 10:21 am
Realistic solo violin

Image
You chose poorly as that particular violin resides in a glass case in Oxford England and is never played.

Its permanently muted :hihi:

Return to “Music Cafe”