KVR Audio

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:31 am

Why do some people find threads about products that they have no interest in and post (a lot!) about why they have no interest in them, seems strange to me?

Whywhy · Post by **Whywhy** » Fri Nov 29, 2019 5:24 pm

@SLIC

Welcome to the world wide network -:)

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Fri Nov 29, 2019 5:31 pm

It's called trolling.

Pashkuli · Post by **Pashkuli** » Fri Nov 29, 2019 7:25 pm

By pure psychological analysis, there is no such thing as writing somewhere without any interest in the subject or product or person. Especially those who neg on a personal level. This kind of psychology (and the way it gets manifested) is quite prominent in childhood years but stays till the rest of our lives, masked out by some educational, social or cultural influence, yet completely emerging in different situations.
Trolling is usually related to "making fun of something or someone" just for the sake of it.
In the modern social media and forum cultures of online communication trolling can be addressed to any offtopic (such as this).
Many times criticism over the Internet is and gets mistaken for trolling or hating (most popular, because usually criticism is not fun and in general is not an offtopic).
In essence, if you get upset, disturbed or offended by some post, opinion, article on the Internet, doesn't speak very good for your cognitive abilities.

zerocrossing · Post by **zerocrossing** » Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:34 pm

SLiC wrote: ↑Fri Nov 29, 2019 10:31 am Why do some people find threads about products that they have no interest in and post (a lot!) about why they have no interest in them, seems strange to me?

I actually think that it is because they have a lot of interest, though subconsciously. Their trolling is their conscious mind trying to stifle their natural curiosity. It could be for many reasons. Maybe no money. Maybe they don’t know how to play keys and feel insecure about that. It’s not for fake reasons, there are many reasons why a product like this isn’t for everyone.

I know that I’ve kind of done this... it’s like a brake against out-of-control G.A.S. I made a couple or so posts on a Poly D thread. Nothing specifically against the synth (more the shifty marketing), which I think is pretty great sounding, but I had to read my conscious brain’s thoughts about why it won’t work for me. No presets, I’m out of space, too few modulation options compared to what I have, etc. Might seem like I’m trolling, but I’m only trolling myself. I try to be fair about all the great things about an instrument and make sure the statements are about why it doesn’t really work for me, but I bet that to people honestly excited about it, it seems like I’m just trolling.

About this synth, I’m truly on the fence. If it had 5 octaves I’d be on it like Boomers making fun of Millennials, but at 4 octaves, it’s a quandary. I’d really love to have a hardware MPE synth that’s made for the job, and having a keyboard with MPE to befriend my Rise 49 would be awesome as well... but it would mean getting rid of my GEM S2. I don’t have space for them both. I’ve already tried ditching a 61 key controller and I didn’t like it.

Tj Shredder · Post by **Tj Shredder** » Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:55 pm

Pashkuli wrote: ↑Thu Nov 28, 2019 11:01 pm I said what preoccupies me: the limiting design of the keyboard (too much bound to the standard flat one), which is not suitable for such product!
I am not impressed by the "soft touch" or volume dynamic response of it. Vibrato is good... but I am waiting for proper Pitch Bend (and it does not have to be more than 4 polyphonic) demonstration.

I think the design is perfect for classic keyboard players, better than the Seaboard aimed at the same clientele, though it has less dimensions... They don‘t want to learn a completely different instrument and train a completely different muscle memory...
Your preoccupation comes from your own design. I looked at it, because I am always curious about new controllers. But compared to a LinnStrument it doesn‘t give me the polyphonic pitch bend I would be after... (the Osmose neither...)

Pashkuli · Post by **Pashkuli** » Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:10 pm

Tj Shredder wrote: ↑Sat Nov 30, 2019 2:55 pm I think the design is perfect for classic keyboard players, better than the Seaboard aimed at the same clientele, though it has less dimensions... They don‘t want to learn a completely different instrument and train a completely different muscle memory...
Your preoccupation comes from your own design. I looked at it, because I am always curious about new controllers. But compared to a LinnStrument it doesn‘t give me the polyphonic pitch bend I would be after... (the Osmose neither...)

Someone already mentioned that the Seaboard was not meant to be targeted at classical piano players. Similar to the electric guitar - it is pointless to even try and play flamenco or classical feel to the touch and sound.
Linnstrument - another different instrument having absolutely nothing in common to classic piano, Seaboard, Continuum, yet if you want to play something on it, you have to dedicate time and effort in order to do that. Linnstrument does not have a Pitch bend (nor the Seaboard), as far as I am aware, but with the genius mind behind it (Roger Linn) you never know. I have not tried it, so I speak only from the emos I have seen.

And in general, if you offer a new instrument, no one has ever played before, it is highly unrealistic to expect a group of players from different field to jump right on it and be proficient at it.
The fresh minds of kids and teens are the ones who will find new stuff intriguing and interesting, not the elders (at least that is the usual historical tendency).

P.S. I can list down the reasons that led me to design my keyboard (Pashkuli) but not here and probably have done it anyway somewhere. Point by point, feature by feature, including design decisions for shapes, layouts, etc. not just technical implementations (some of which are still in progress).

Tj Shredder · Post by **Tj Shredder** » Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:08 pm

Pashkuli wrote: ↑Sat Nov 30, 2019 4:10 pm And in general, if you offer a new instrument, no one has ever played before, it is highly unrealistic to expect a group of players from different field to jump right on it and be proficient at it.
The fresh minds of kids and teens are the ones who will find new stuff intriguing and interesting, not the elders (at least that is the usual historical tendency).

Strange, I jumped right on it at age 60... Proficiency is another story I won't judge...
Fresh mind is not a question of age...
And with a lot of marketing Roli got rolling pretty well...
I mean the pictures of your baby do look interesting, but there is no info available, no web site, nothing. Some short videos but no musical demonstration etc.
Maybe you should also do a Kickstarter campaign to get your invention into the world...
What would be the envisioned price tag? I remember that I also jumped right on the Continuum, but never could afford one...
Though I am covered with my LinnStrument, and whenever I would need another "standard" keyboard, Osmose comes closest yet...

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:14 pm

Osmose pre-order now SOLD OUT
Didn't take long!

Pashkuli · Post by **Pashkuli** » Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:46 pm

SLiC wrote: ↑Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:14 pm Osmose pre-order now SOLD OUT
Didn't take long!

Of course it will. The instrument is an affordable and more approachable (standard keyboard) version of Continuum with all the EagenMatrix software + MPE. Not a 61 keys, but still for 49 keys it's usable size. Seaboard also do not offer more than that range at the moment... would be quite expensive otherwise. These are mainly per demand products, not a production line.

Tj Shredder wrote: ↑Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:08 pm Fresh mind is not a question of age...
And with a lot of marketing Roli got rolling pretty well...
I mean the pictures of your baby do look interesting, but there is no info available, no web site, nothing. Some short videos but no musical demonstration etc.
Maybe you should also do a Kickstarter campaign to get your invention into the world...
What would be the envisioned price tag? I remember that I also jumped right on the Continuum, but never could afford one...

By "fresh mind" I meant untouched, unbiased, empty of dogma, if you will.
My "baby" technically is not mine. It is just an improved (or contemporary) version of T. Dreschke's keyboard (now 150 years old). It is just a hobby, not intended to anything (market) or anyone (besides me at this point). It is a form of respect or acknowledgement (recognition). No need for website. Youtube, Instagram, Facebook are good enough. Kickstarter is for pre-production phase for products, not for prototypes. I know of only 5~6 people (on the planet) who can actually play it (I am not one of them).

Whywhy · Post by **Whywhy** » Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:11 am

[https://youtu.be/u_Q7FSOuS8E]

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:59 am

I find the expression in that video very enticing! The subtlety of touch is impressive while also looking intuitive and natural

Pashkuli · Post by **Pashkuli** » Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:49 pm

Whywhy wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 6:11 am https://youtu.be/u_Q7FSOuS8E

Especially at the end, when the host is mingling with the keys, in a close up we can really see the not so great quality of the keys (the tops mainly). Yes, it is a prototype, but come on... even mine look better than theirs.
I hope they will respond to my suggestion and use the...

It will be for the better. For all players.

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Wed Dec 04, 2019 2:56 pm

https://youtu.be/nsEgudGZSwI

The first wave of Osmose pre-orders has sold out, but Expressive E has announced that it’s giving you a second chance to reserve one. If you put down a $299/€299 deposit now you should get one in Fall 2020, and for a reduced price of $1,205/€1,205 (the regular price will be $1,079/€1,079).

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Thu Dec 05, 2019 11:32 am

Pashkuli wrote: ↑Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:49 pmI hope they will respond to my suggestion and use the...

It will be for the better. For all players.

They won't. And it won't.

New ExpressiveE instrument: Osmose