Liquid Rhythm, PB Scaler, AutoTheory - opinions?

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
Caine123
KVRAF
6108 posts since 5 Aug, 2009

Post Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:30 pm

both on sale, i wonder how those complement or are useful for people like me who dunno chords in mind and always have to look up. so far i set 1 chord for 1 project/song. but i wanna try to make some chord progression but dunno yet how to. are those plugins recommendable?
Last edited by Caine123 on Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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planetearth
KVRAF
1611 posts since 10 Jul, 2006 from Tampa

Re: Liquid Rhythm, PB Scaler - opinions?

Post Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:40 pm

I can't speak to Liquid Rhythm, but a muso friend and I are also interested in Scaler.

I don't think it's geared toward "teaching" about chords, but it looks like you'd be able to learn from it as you go (mostly through osmosis, in effect). But that's only if you use it to tell you which chords you're playing, or which chords work within which key/scale/mode/etc. I think that if you rely upon the chord/style presets it has for the various genres, you might actually do yourself more harm than good, since you'll be able to audition and drag/drop chords in any order into your tune, without really knowing what they are, or why they sound good together.

I'm interested to see what others think about this.

Steve
Listen to some of my stuff here: https://soundcloud.com/shadowsoflife.

Local Man
KVRian
678 posts since 31 May, 2017

Re: Liquid Rhythm, PB Scaler - opinions?

Post Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:41 pm

I wouldn't recommend any plugin for that purpose. I would recommend a book on music theory (specifically tonal harmony), a lot of listening to recordings that may not be in the genre you most like or that may not be exactly like the music you want to create (classical music and jazz are the usual recommendations here but I would keep an open mind to any well defined genre), and last but certainly not least, lots of practice on your instrument of choice (even if that is the pencil tool in your DAW's piano roll). Believe me, even though this may take longer it will take you so much farther.
Also liquid rhythm has nothing to do with chords. It is a rhythm creation tool.

Greenstorm33
KVRian
633 posts since 27 Apr, 2012

Re: Liquid Rhythm, PB Scaler, AutoTheory - opinions?

Post Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:17 pm

OP probably meant Liquid Music rather than Liquid Rhythm. I'm not 100% sold on it, but it does seem like a neat way to rapidly prototype chord progressions for those of us who are a bit music theory-challenged. The arpeggiator functionality also seems pretty good. Unfortunately I can't test it right now, so I'm not sure if I'll bite or not, and there probably isn't that much longer to decide. If anybody has opinions on it I'd be interested in hearing them.

gnu23
KVRian
605 posts since 8 Mar, 2004 from Network 23

Re: Liquid Rhythm, PB Scaler, AutoTheory - opinions?

Post Mon Nov 27, 2017 7:01 pm

There's a thread on Liquid Rhythm (viewtopic.php?p=6938545)..now if I can just remember how to properly do a URL tag.. :dog:
We shall see orchestral machines with a thousand new sounds, with thousands of new euphonies, as opposed to the present day's simple sounds of strings, brass, and woodwinds. -- George Antheil, circa 1925 ---

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Pictus
KVRist
295 posts since 21 Aug, 2017 from Brasil

Re: Liquid Rhythm, PB Scaler, AutoTheory - opinions?

Post Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:46 am

Liquid Music looks very interesting and RapidComposer too, with both we
need to take our time to deep learn its details/tricks/workflow...
But my main doubt is, do they help or not?
I guess they do, but as a newbie is quite hard to avaliate wich one.

Anyway seems like the WaveDNA was "dead", but maybe is re-birthing...
From https://cycling74.com/articles/artist-focus-peter-slack
"WaveDNA has gone through significant changes. Two years ago WaveDNA let
go all the full time staff (including myself) and many sacrifices were
made in order to restructure the company behind the scenes. Steps were
taken to continue to support the product with a limited skeleton crew and
I was engaged as a consultant to complete the Liquid Music for Live release
and also the development and release of the Liquid Music VST.
WaveDNA is in a slow process of regrouping at this time and charting out the
future for the product lines, so this is a positive thing but changes and
news will be slow.
In terms of product updates, Liquid Music 1.6.2 was released in February
and Liquid Music 1.6.3 just last week (the newsletter will go out today).
I continue to support product improvements, bug fixing and dev-ops."

RapidComposer is alive with an active community, registration is just a serial(do not
need to worry if the maker ceases to exist) and do not use JAVA...
I a bit more inclined to RapidComposer, but the Liquid Music/Rhythm looks soooo
neat/intelligent design, if all that translates into efficiency/good results...

Topcheese
KVRist
234 posts since 12 Nov, 2017

Re: Liquid Rhythm, PB Scaler, AutoTheory - opinions?

Post Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:46 am

You know the market is crowded with way too many, and the thing about it is they all trying to do the same thing as far as being a shortcut to creating music. Most of them will have a bit of a learning curve, but then the question comes how fast can you turn out music after learning the program. Scaler does look nice and certainly a lot easier than LR for sure. Liquid Rhythm is going to give you the most useful feature set out of the bunch, and you'll end up having lots more fun doing it.

The kicker is that you can get Liquid Rhythm and Music for $70. That's cheaper than Rapid Composer full, plus you don't get the innovative rhythm features that you get with WaveDNA. Plus once you learn their color coded system for the rhythm, the same setup is applied to your chord progressions with LM. The others can't do that.

Did I mention it also has glitch effects, I mean come on it's not going to replace dedicated glitch machines, but I can name quite a few products Liquid Music could replace. starting with the ones in the title of this thread.

That being said, there are indeed some serious negatives about it, but all in all the reviewers weren't lying, the software is good for rapid composing. They all have their place in your tool chest if you can afford it. Ezkeys is nice, and so is Jammer Pro.

They all show you progressions, but you still have to end up putting it all together, and making something good from it. They are good for ideas, but you still need to flesh out the tracks with other instruments and sounds. On that note it appears WaveDNA has gone to great strides to try and give us something that you can sort of breathe life into once you master it.

Jammer Pro is like that where you can either quickly produce a cookie cutter song, or dive deep into it for something a bit more intimate. So it really depends on your needs, do you need something quick and easy for progressions, or something a bit more beefy to help flesh out more of the song?

PB Scaler looks good for quick progressions, and it looks like it should integrate well with a VST host.

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Pictus
KVRist
295 posts since 21 Aug, 2017 from Brasil

Re: Liquid Rhythm, PB Scaler, AutoTheory - opinions?

Post Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:51 pm

Topcheese wrote:You know the market is crowded with way too many, and the thing about it is they all trying to do the same thing as far as being a shortcut to creating music. Most of them will have a bit of a learning curve, but then the question comes how fast can you turn out music after learning the program. Scaler does look nice and certainly a lot easier than LR for sure. Liquid Rhythm is going to give you the most useful feature set out of the bunch, and you'll end up having lots more fun doing it.

The kicker is that you can get Liquid Rhythm and Music for $70.
Thank you for your thoughts, were we can get Liquid Music/Rhythm for $70 ?
That's cheaper than Rapid Composer full, plus you don't get the innovative rhythm features that you get with WaveDNA. Plus once you learn their color coded system for the rhythm, the same setup is applied to your chord progressions with LM. The others can't do that.
Are you sure RapidComposer can not do?

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rod_zero
KVRAF
3036 posts since 28 Jan, 2011 from MEXICO

Re: Liquid Rhythm, PB Scaler, AutoTheory - opinions?

Post Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:08 pm

Maybe consider ear training software, as ear master, that will also help a lot going forward in developing your skills.

Maybe also check Melodics for finger drumming, and now playing keys too. Again, developing playing skills help a lot to understand, you become less reliant on "composing" tools.
dedication to flying

Topcheese
KVRist
234 posts since 12 Nov, 2017

Re: Liquid Rhythm, PB Scaler, AutoTheory - opinions?

Post Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:13 pm

Pictus wrote: Thank you for your thoughts, were we can get Liquid Music/Rhythm for $70 ?



Are you sure RapidComposer can not do?
Not anymore, that was if you got in on the $20 sale at PB, or it seems Steam also had a crazy sale on it where it was even cheaper. They also have the upgrade from LR to LM still on sale for $50.

Rapid Composer can do way more, and I'm not really trying to imply that one is better than the other. Since you asked I'll go right on out and say it, I'm not really sure what RapidComposer can do since they/ he couldn't even offer a 50% savings this holiday season. I always hear about this one man team, and don't get me wrong RC is impressive, but I'm also not into companies that sale disabled "lite" products.

Now that the prices are what they are, RC is looking like the better prospect. I even hear that the support is better for RC . Like I said it all depends on how much power you want and need. The thing is one allows you to continue working in your current host, and the other tries to be a host. It seems to be working out for them, so we have many good tools coming from different approaches.

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tommyzai
KVRist
437 posts since 12 Jan, 2011

Re: Liquid Rhythm, PB Scaler, AutoTheory - opinions?

Post Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:07 am

LiquidRhythm is neatly designed and integrates seamlessly in my DAWs . . . but I often use stand-alone version to quickly sketch-out a groove. I use Liquid Music by WaveDNA (updated v1.7 is sweet). It's the big bro . . . includes L.R.

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