Wrapping plugins with Novation Automap is dangerous

[Echoes in the Attic]

Although I'm a big fan of automap, I do see what the OP is trying to say. Committing to plug-ins or a DAW is one thing, but committing to a whole system of plug-in wrapping for the sake of a keyboard is another. I've felt that nervousness as well, but decided to get over it. Also, I'm not sure if it recalls your settings or even replaces the plug-in with the regular plug-in with audio unit versions on mac. And I'm not totally convinved it will recall all settings yet in ableton which I use, but if true (on mac), then ableton users really have nothing to fear with automap. Other hosts might require more attention though, who knows.

[Rellik]

So Automap is 'dangerous' because you need Automap to use Automap?

Hmmmm.

Methinks the OP hasn't quite thought out all the logical extensions of his line of thinking: 'Help my DAW is dangerous because if I delete it, I can't open my projects that use it'.

Sure, by using a DAW you have to accept a single point of failure. And by using any individual closed-source plugin, you accept that projects that use those plugins may not work in the future.

But I would consider Automap an "invisible" dependency, one that can easily permeate all of your projects without you being aware that you're introducing it. Further, given Automap's hardware-related nature, it's less likely to be supported/stable without maintenance in the future. And that's why it's dangerous and why users should be aware of it. Make sense?

Personally, I've decided that I'm going to ignore the risk - since Automap server seems like a pretty well-behaved app I'm betting on being able to get the current version up and running (in a special install of XP if necessary) in the future if Novation stops maintaining it. But you can bet I'll be keeping a backup of that installer executable!

[napalmbob]

I don't bother with wrapping shit, I just use the thing (Nocturn in my case) in MIDI mode and use it mainly with specific apps/plugs.

[Echoes in the Attic]

So on a mac, this is an interesting thing:

If you use automapped AUs, and then get rid of the automapped version, the host can not find the plug-in. However if you use the VST version and one day you ditch all your automap wrapped plug-ins, they will still load in saved projects as the regular VST with the settings maintained.

And you know what's even better? If you then decide to put the automapped version back, it will again load the automap version (unless you had saved it again with the normal versions probably).

This means that if your ever worried about stability when you are for example doing a live show, you can actually just move your automap versions out of your VST folder and your project will load the normal versions. Then after you can put them back and they will load the automap versions again and recall the settings. That's pretty damn cool.

This is at least how it works in Ableton Live and I've only tested a couple plug-ins so I can't say that it works with everything. Too bad it doesn't work with AUs though. I pretty much only use VST in Live now anyways.

So I don't know how it is on PC, but on mac, I can say t hat wrapping your plug-ins is definitely not dangerous as long as you use VSTs.

[tony tony chopper]

Using the Automap-wrapped versions of the plugins in your projects makes Automap a complete dependency.

With that theory, you wouldn't use any plugin either, because your projects would depend on those plugins.

Novation did what most hosts didn't bother doing, and they did it well. But to do this they had to wrap plugins, to control them directly, what most hosts don't allow.
The only thing that bothers me is that it kinda conflicts with what the host has to offer, when it offers its own control. But Novation did the best they could, and I'm amazed it worked. It's just that a good host shouldn't need Automap, because it should already be doing what Automap does.


If Automap required hardware to be present to run, then it would indeed be a flaw. But I don't think it does, does it? It doesn't chain you to their hardware for life.

[buscemi]

If Automap required hardware to be present to run, then it would indeed be a flaw. But I don't think it does, does it? It doesn't chain you to their hardware for life.

Nope. When I don't have it attached to the laptop I just close Automap Server and can still use wrapped plugins if I want to.

[Andreaux]

So Automap is 'dangerous' because you need Automap to use Automap?

Hmmmm.

Methinks the OP hasn't quite thought out all the logical extensions of his line of thinking: 'Help my DAW is dangerous because if I delete it, I can't open my projects that use it'.

Sounds kind of stupid to me, I'm sorry to say.

I am exactly having the problem the OP had probably in mind when writing his post.

I am using Logic since ages, across all the versions imaginable and never had a problem moving from one version to the other, but... at, some point, I had a Novation conroller and installed Automap... wrapped my plugins with it and used it quite a lot... then sold it and stopped using Automap.

Now every single project I used Automap on can't be opened. The plugin names are crossed out and although the non-wrapped versions of the plugins are still present, I have no way to see what the sound name was or what parameters were changed.

Since both the wrapped and the unwrapped versions of the same plugin can not co-exist, I am doomed to re-open Automap, re-wrap all my plugins I used wrapped back then, open the project, try to figure out what sounds I used and what had been changed from the factory patch, (which honestly, I can't always tell... I'm having a real hard time to figure out LFO settings for some dubstep patches I used in a project...) and then re-open with the plugins unwrapped, select the same sound, try to apply all the changes to it and re-save the project... then move on to the next sound.
This sucks hard.

So I agree with the OP. THIS IS FREAKIN' dangerous and I learned it the hard way

[Googly Smythe]

Climbing Everest - now that's dangerous. Pain in the arris software? Nah.

[Lotuzia]

So Automap is 'dangerous' because you need Automap to use Automap?

Hmmmm.

Methinks the OP hasn't quite thought out all the logical extensions of his line of thinking: 'Help my DAW is dangerous because if I delete it, I can't open my projects that use it'.

Sounds kind of stupid to me, I'm sorry to say.

I am exactly having the problem the OP had probably in mind when writing his post.

I am using Logic since ages, across all the versions imaginable and never had a problem moving from one version to the other, but... at, some point, I had a Novation conroller and installed Automap... wrapped my plugins with it and used it quite a lot... then sold it and stopped using Automap.

Now every single project I used Automap on can't be opened. The plugin names are crossed out and although the non-wrapped versions of the plugins are still present, I have no way to see what the sound name was or what parameters were changed.

Since both the wrapped and the unwrapped versions of the same plugin can not co-exist, I am doomed to re-open Automap, re-wrap all my plugins I used wrapped back then, open the project, try to figure out what sounds I used and what had been changed from the factory patch, (which honestly, I can't always tell... I'm having a real hard time to figure out LFO settings for some dubstep patches I used in a project...) and then re-open with the plugins unwrapped, select the same sound, try to apply all the changes to it and re-save the project... then move on to the next sound.
This sucks hard.

So I agree with the OP. THIS IS FREAKIN' dangerous and I learned it the hard way

Yes the problem exists, and I wrote several times about it for some years now.
I remember exporting a project using a bunch of automap wrapped Kontakt instances for a project. When going to the external studio, where no automap was installed, all the kontakt instruments could not load (ie 50% of the project, with custom Kontakt patches) I just looked like an idiot, and a some money was lost this day as I had to come back to my studio, export all the Kontakt instruments, and note wich track and channel was played by a certain instrument. This also happened many times when I reopened project in my new systems without automap installed. So I decided to never install a wrapper anymore ( be automap or the new akai thing wich operates in a similar way etc), and I still have to maintain an old XP machine where automap is installed to save patches and be able to reload them in my new systems if I have to reopen some old projects for whatever reason

Tbh, when I posted this in several topics, someone told me that this problem was solved in the last versions of Automap -i.e if an automap version of a plug is not present, or automap not installed, project will load the regular version of the plug-, so maybe the op should check the last versions. As for me, I now assign my controllers in the plug in itself, when the plugs allow to do that, like the Xils. No more wrapper between me and the daw : This will always work, whatever the daw, the studio, etc.

[whyterabbyt]

So I agree with the OP. THIS IS FREAKIN' dangerous and I learned it the hard way

And how is that less 'dangerous' than if you'd, say, stopped using Logic and now couldnt even open those old projects?

Clue ; what's actually 'dangerous' is removing anything your projects are dependent on without considering that dependency. Its not the things you remove that are 'dangerous', its your actions.

[Michael L]

... e.g. did you run the Automap Uninstaller and uninstall your wrapped plugins? If you reinstall Automap 4.10 (5 minutes) and create wrapped versions of your plugins (5 minutes, just click the plugin names in Software Setup), Logic should recognise those names with the (Automap) extension.
Γνωρίστε το λογισμικό σας!

[Vectorman]

(Not making light of anyone's concerns, this was just the first thing that popped into my head...)

this is my art and it is dangerous.jpg

[VariKusBrainZ]

When I tried it a few years ago it introduced steps into anything it was controlling, ie it was stepped rather than smooth.
Uninstalled immediately.

[Smasha]

Novation Impulse,worst kb I have ever owned for control ,the playing keys are great but everything else sucks,Automap is useless,it doesn't learn midi cc messages from vsti's either.

I right click Airplug ins d33 organ to learn a cc to my fader or rotary and nothing happens.

A pile of junk ,only use the playable kb ,everything else sucks.

Deleting all my Automap plugins and uninstalling Automap,it is useless!!

[Echoes in the Attic]

Novation Impulse,worst kb I have ever owned for control ,the playing keys are great but everything else sucks,Automap is useless,it doesn't learn midi cc messages from vsti's either.

I right click Airplug ins d33 organ to learn a cc to my fader or rotary and nothing happens.

A pile of junk ,only use the playable kb ,everything else sucks.

Deleting all my Automap plugins and uninstalling Automap,it is useless!!

The reason you think it sucks is because you haven’t got the slightest clue how to use it and why it is much different from assigning midi cc’s. It uses uses host parameter ID’s, not midi assigning. This lets you set custom resolution and ranges. It also provides two way communication. So you can see the actual values regardless of unit, on the screen. So you could have an encoder a roll through selections in a drop down menu for example. And if something is adjusted in software it is updated on the Novation screens as well. This is his push works with Ableton and Maschine works as well. It is much better than midi learn. But it is much better with Novation because if the customization. To this day it is by far the best system for hardware control of software instruments.

Anything can do midi learn. And it’s a crap, low resolution way to control software. But yes Novation controllers can do it to, you don’t use the automap mode for that though. You use regular midi templates.