Why not a subtractive synth with LFOs that go to much higher rates?

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
empphryio
KVRist
119 posts since 14 Apr, 2019

Post Mon Jan 20, 2020 7:37 am

So basically subtractive plus fm. I'm sure there are some. But I wonder why it's not just common. Anyone know of some?
I mean an LFO that can go at least 20 times higher than the carrier wave. Seems like a very slight change that could really open up potential.

Trancit
KVRAF
2622 posts since 27 Jul, 2004

Re: Why not a subtractive synth with LFOs that go to much higher rates?

Post Mon Jan 20, 2020 8:39 am

1. Most nowadays FM synths already work like a subtractive one...(with filters etc...)

2. There are already some offering this like i.e. PhasePlant every oscillator can modulate every parameter inside at audiorate...

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pdxindy
KVRAF
16336 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: Why not a subtractive synth with LFOs that go to much higher rates?

Post Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:07 am

Bazille

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Forgotten
KVRAF
9878 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: Why not a subtractive synth with LFOs that go to much higher rates?

Post Mon Jan 20, 2020 9:24 am

Anything that’s modular should fit that description

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sinemotor
KVRist
273 posts since 24 Dec, 2015

Re: Why not a subtractive synth with LFOs that go to much higher rates?

Post Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:14 am

Yes. Massive X can do that for example. Like, you can use an LFO as an additional oscillator. You can do very wild PM stuff with this synth.

empphryio
KVRist
119 posts since 14 Apr, 2019

Re: Why not a subtractive synth with LFOs that go to much higher rates?

Post Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:05 am

Thanks.

Acid Mitch
KVRAF
2017 posts since 5 Oct, 2005

Re: Why not a subtractive synth with LFOs that go to much higher rates?

Post Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:12 am

The “L” in lfo stands for “low”.
If you take an lfo into audio rates it’s no longer a low frequency oscillator. It is just a standard oscillator.

It’s a bit like asking why there are no 6 foot dwarfs.

empphryio
KVRist
119 posts since 14 Apr, 2019

Re: Why not a subtractive synth with LFOs that go to much higher rates?

Post Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:30 am

...and fm synths are really phase modulation synths. I know what lfo stands for.

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DJ Warmonger
KVRAF
3677 posts since 7 Jun, 2012 from Warsaw

Re: Why not a subtractive synth with LFOs that go to much higher rates?

Post Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:41 am

If you take an lfo into audio rates it’s no longer a low frequency oscillator. It is just a standard oscillator.
Standard synth oscillators are tuned to incoming MIDI pitch, while LFOs are not.

...or maybe there are some internet haters that prevent low frequency oscillators from being fast, there are surely not rational or technical limitations.

One issue I see is LFO tuning - if you have one little knob controlling range from 0.001 Hz to 20 kHz, it's difficult to dial any particular value.

The other may be some fetish for "analog emulation" - if original synth had low frequency range, the new one has this limit as well.
http://djwarmonger.wordpress.com/
Tricky-Loops wrote: (...)someone like Armin van Buuren who claims to make a track in half an hour and all his songs sound somewhat boring(...)

Acid Mitch
KVRAF
2017 posts since 5 Oct, 2005

Re: Why not a subtractive synth with LFOs that go to much higher rates?

Post Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:06 am

DJ Warmonger wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:41 am
Standard synth oscillators are tuned to incoming MIDI pitch, while LFOs are not.
Depends on the synth. Some of mine don’t even have midi and with some you can disable the keyboard/midi control of oscillators.
DJ Warmonger wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:41 am
...or maybe there are some internet haters that prevent low frequency oscillators from being fast, there are surely not rational or technical limitations.
There actually are technical limitations and rational decisions but it has nothing to do with weather you hate the internet or not.
empphryio wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:30 am
..I know what lfo stands for.
And yet you ask for one that is high frequency.
empphryio wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:30 am
...and fm synths are really phase modulation synths.
Yes,Yamaha DX,etc use phase modulation but there’s still alot of actual fm out there.
empphryio wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:30 am
One issue I see is LFO tuning - if you have one little knob controlling range from 0.001 Hz to 20 kHz, it's difficult to dial any particular value.
Some oscillators (lfo’s and audiorate) have a range switch to make dialling in precise values a bit easier and some have numerical values you can enter.
Last edited by Acid Mitch on Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:23 am, edited 1 time in total.

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vurt
addled muppet weed
61375 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Why not a subtractive synth with LFOs that go to much higher rates?

Post Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:13 am

Acid Mitch wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:12 am
The “L” in lfo stands for “low”.
If you take an lfo into audio rates it’s no longer a low frequency oscillator. It is just a standard oscillator.

It’s a bit like asking why there are no 6 foot dwarfs.
https://discworld.fandom.com/wiki/Carro ... oundersson

Acid Mitch
KVRAF
2017 posts since 5 Oct, 2005

Re: Why not a subtractive synth with LFOs that go to much higher rates?

Post Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:17 am

^ He’s a human adopted by Dwarves. Just like an audiorate lfo is really just an oscillator adopted by the modulation bus.
Last edited by Acid Mitch on Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

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vurt
addled muppet weed
61375 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Why not a subtractive synth with LFOs that go to much higher rates?

Post Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:18 am

closest i could find sorry :hihi:

Acid Mitch
KVRAF
2017 posts since 5 Oct, 2005

Re: Why not a subtractive synth with LFOs that go to much higher rates?

Post Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:20 am

You did have me thinking “wtf, how’s that even possible” for a minute. :hihi: :tu:

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vurt
addled muppet weed
61375 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Why not a subtractive synth with LFOs that go to much higher rates?

Post Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:24 am

:lol:

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