Q: Do we need HDDs any more?

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DarkStar
KVRAF
9398 posts since 2 Sep, 2003 from Surrey, UK

Post Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:51 am

Just exploring at the moment.

If I can get a new PC with 2 M.2 NVMe sockets (for SSDs, one for Windows and one for Sound libraries) and SATA sockets for other SSDs do I need any hard disk drives at all?

Ok, maybe for back-ups. But, apart from that?
DarkStar
Interesting, if true ...

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whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
27884 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Re: Q: Do we need HDDs any more?

Post Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:11 am

Backups, archives, and anything which involves large amounts of data in total, but is infrequently accessed.
(For example if you had a crapload of assets like samples or whatever where its actually a local copy that's imported into your project.)
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lfm
KVRAF
5211 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Re: Q: Do we need HDDs any more?

Post Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:20 am

Next computer I get is only hdd - but I am conservative and want reliability more than faster.
Read cache take care of next read anyway. I find hdd fast enough.
I have 3 hdd's - one for os, one for mainly writing and one for mainly reading.

I write this on 16 years computer, which a ssd does not last it's life.
My current daw I had 10 years now, and may be in the range it could start fail if ssd.

When newer technology arrive I will do ssd - that does have same limited MTBF as of now or whatever they call it.

Just one thing to think of.

cnt
KVRist
350 posts since 9 Mar, 2001

Re: Q: Do we need HDDs any more?

Post Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:25 am

Ssd and NVMe only for me now.
2 TB SSD/NVMe disks arent that expensive.

Backupserver, cloudbackup or external HDD for backups.

Ive had many many HDD crashes during past 20 years but no SSD crashes yet.

If you got full backup theres no real reason not to get SSD only in your DAW..

cnt
KVRist
350 posts since 9 Mar, 2001

Re: Q: Do we need HDDs any more?

Post Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:27 am

Also, I only buy disks with 5+ years warranty. Not all SSDs are equal...

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DJ Warmonger
KVRAF
3625 posts since 7 Jun, 2012 from Warsaw

Re: Q: Do we need HDDs any more?

Post Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:34 am

I still run HDD RAID10 for my working projects (music, programming, recently videos). Surely I'd like to go full-SSD, but then how do I guarantee the data is safe? I already had to replace my previous system SSD which failed fatally short after 2 years of operation.
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cron
KVRAF
3289 posts since 27 Dec, 2002 from North East England

Re: Q: Do we need HDDs any more?

Post Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:20 am

lfm wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:20 am
Next computer I get is only hdd - but I am conservative and want reliability more than faster.
If you want reliability, I'd absoultely go SSD. I think people are put off because of them being rated for x TBW, while hard drives tend not to have such a rating. Predictable failure is unquestionably a plus in my eyes. Hard drives inevitably fail too - it's just that they typically fail catastrophically and without warning at an almost random point in time. 16 years is an exceptional run for an HDD. With an HDD you tend to replace after catastrophic failure; with an SSD you replace whenever your monitoring solution warns that there are (x) bad cells on the drive (or at the TBW rating if we're being very conservative).

lfm
KVRAF
5211 posts since 22 Jan, 2005 from Sweden

Re: Q: Do we need HDDs any more?

Post Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:29 am

cron wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:20 am
If you want reliability, I'd absoultely go SSD.
You go for it, I ran hdd since 1985 and had to once on my current 16 year computer repartition since fat table became a little worn. It came out in a chkdisk and no sudden anything. So med starting cylinder a 100 or so further in - and all good.

I'm just forwarding my experience and why - it's free for anybody buying computer every couple of years and probably never notice ssd issues to get what they see serve them best.

When technology is truly solid state I'd feel more comfortable.

Just had no problem with the speed of hdd. Running large projects and mixing your read cache work for you - just as fast as ssd. So 32 GB of memory and you have large enough read cache for hdd.

If boot takes a minute and first play through of a project have a little crackle loading samples - it does not matter to me.

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Synthman2000
KVRian
640 posts since 27 Apr, 2016

Re: Q: Do we need HDDs any more?

Post Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:35 am

I went with Samsung 850 Pro's, so far so good. 10 year warranty, it's long enough, all powered with expensive premium PSU's. I plan to keep my latest PC's 10 years if possible. Writes are very low on system drives. So far I am a big fan of SSD.

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whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
27884 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Re: Q: Do we need HDDs any more?

Post Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:46 am

My oldest SSD was 8 years old when I retired it. Never gave me a single problem despite being thrashed as cache for an HDD.
"The bearer of this signature is a genuine and authorised pope."

robotmonkey
KVRAF
2377 posts since 20 Jun, 2012

Re: Q: Do we need HDDs any more?

Post Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:10 am

SSD's are still too expensive for large data storage. Anything over 1TB is kind of too expensive still.

My system and sample drive are both SSD's but anything else, like photos, documents, movies, games etc are on 10k enterprise HDD's or 7.2k HDD's. Most of that stuff would also not benefit from more expensive SSD's anyway. I also have more trust in enterprise HDD reliability than SSD's.
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pljones
KVRAF
6622 posts since 8 Feb, 2003 from London, UK

Re: Q: Do we need HDDs any more?

Post Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:46 am

Yep, simple maths says "slow, high volume = HDD, fast, low to medium volume = SSD". I've one PC that's SSD only and a file server that runs the OS off a small SSD and stores data on a few HDDs. I've only had one HDD fail - it was within warranty but that's absolutely no help when you were using it as an archive drive... (fortunately it was mostly recoverable and the really bad bits I did still have other copies of the data...).

jdnz
KVRian
821 posts since 3 Oct, 2011 from Christchurch, New Zealand

Re: Q: Do we need HDDs any more?

Post Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:13 am

DJ Warmonger wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:34 am
I still run HDD RAID10 for my working projects (music, programming, recently videos). Surely I'd like to go full-SSD, but then how do I guarantee the data is safe? I already had to replace my previous system SSD which failed fatally short after 2 years of operation.
you realise you can run raid10 on ssd as well (either a board with dual m2 sockets, or use sata ssds)

People running non-raid HDDs are deluding themselves if they think a 5 year warranty on the drive means they’re ‘safe’ - we have plenty of enterprise grade drives fail inside warranty (and we don’t hammer our arrays that hard)

Have a look at backblazes drive reliability data reports and you’ll realise why you either need redundancy or a continuous backup system (like acronis)

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Harry_HH
KVRAF
3979 posts since 4 Aug, 2006 from Helsinki

Re: Q: Do we need HDDs any more?

Post Wed Jan 22, 2020 11:45 am

My year old i7 desktop has 2 ssd:s and 3 hdd:s.
Omen laptop 1 ssd and 1 hdd.

Bad news is, the storage space seems to be like a desk surface: free room becomes filled soon without active, constant cleaning and organizing. Booring.

punkfest2000
KVRist
113 posts since 13 Sep, 2005

Re: Q: Do we need HDDs any more?

Post Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:45 pm

M.2 Nvme only for me. HDD strictly for local archival, but also back my projects up to paid OneDrive.

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