MS-20 vintage vs MS-20 mini vs MS-20 reissue vs K-2 vs MS-20m

Anything about hardware musical instruments.
Stefken
KVRAF
1858 posts since 9 Nov, 2016

Post Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:29 am

Jace-BeOS wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:20 am
Still, the Korg MS-20 mini is only $33 more for a legit Korg...
33 dollars?

Bax-shop in Belgium:
K-2 : 320 euro
Korg MS-20 Mini : 535 euro

Am I missing an opportunity here?

chk071
KVRAF
22806 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: MS-20 vintage vs MS-20 mini vs MS-20 reissue vs K-2 vs MS-20m

Post Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:11 am

Stefken wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:25 am
Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:49 am
Sorry, software is beside the point.
I'm also interested in software that can bring the same pig scream :D as the hardware. Yet, never found it. I find the official Korg vst somewhat tame;
I never heard the MS-20 in person, only heard a lot of sound examples. IMO, the software version is far from it. It sounds fart dry, doesn't have the squelchy creaminess of the original, and, the resonant behavior is far away as well. I have no idea why people hold the software MS-20 in such high regards. I can only assume that it was quite groundbreaking at the time of release, but, nowadays, I think, in software, we have much better modelled stuff.

I can get your dillemma though, I probably wouldn't know which one to choose either. :) Probably the K-2, because it's the cheapest, and, Behringer just do a good job overall. How good that i don't like the MS-20's sound much, and that i don't have to decide. ;)

deastman
KVRAF
7346 posts since 7 Aug, 2003 from San Francisco Bay Area

Re: MS-20 vintage vs MS-20 mini vs MS-20 reissue vs K-2 vs MS-20m

Post Fri Jan 24, 2020 6:55 am

I have a vintage MS-20, but if I were to replace it, I’d probably get a K2... it’s cheap and “good enough”.
Incomplete list of my gear: 1/8" audio input jack.

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cptgone
KVRAF
5573 posts since 1 Aug, 2003

Re: MS-20 vintage vs MS-20 mini vs MS-20 reissue vs K-2 vs MS-20m

Post Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:00 pm

Stefken wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:29 am
Jace-BeOS wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:20 am
Still, the Korg MS-20 mini is only $33 more for a legit Korg...
33 dollars?

Bax-shop in Belgium:
K-2 : 320 euro
Korg MS-20 Mini : 535 euro

Am I missing an opportunity here?
€493 "till sunday":
https://www.muziker.be/korg-ms-20-mini- ... ynthesizer
14" purple vibrator wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 11:56 am
blah blah as usual....

Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
7723 posts since 12 May, 2008

Re: MS-20 vintage vs MS-20 mini vs MS-20 reissue vs K-2 vs MS-20m

Post Fri Jan 24, 2020 2:10 pm

Stefken wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:25 am
Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 3:49 am
Sorry, software is beside the point.
I'm also interested in software that can bring the same pig scream :D as the hardware. Yet, never found it. I find the official Korg vst somewhat tame; I guess the IMS-20 for ipad/iphone is the same.

But if you would point me to a sound demo of software that can accurately emulate the agressive soul of the MS-20 that'd be great. (Myself, I never found a convincing emulation).
Oh I own the Korg Legacy collection and I never touch the MS-20 from that. Screams ok but has no substance, nothing like analog. I do like the Diva MS-20 modules though it's not quite there, but like I said with the extras it can be pretty cool. Feed your favorite oscillators into the Drop, that would be my suggestion.
System: Windows 10, Dell XPS 2-in-1, Bitwig 3, Steinberg UR44.

User avatar
Jace-BeOS
KVRAF
5755 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America

Re: MS-20 vintage vs MS-20 mini vs MS-20 reissue vs K-2 vs MS-20m

Post Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:13 am

Stefken wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:29 am
Jace-BeOS wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 5:20 am
Still, the Korg MS-20 mini is only $33 more for a legit Korg...
33 dollars?

Bax-shop in Belgium:
K-2 : 320 euro
Korg MS-20 Mini : 535 euro

Am I missing an opportunity here?
Maybe I did my math incorrectly (I DO have dyscalculia), but I went with the prices I found two days ago, in US dollars, at Sweetwater.com.
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud

waiting man
KVRAF
2734 posts since 30 Aug, 2001 from where dinosaurs are still alive

Re: MS-20 vintage vs MS-20 mini vs MS-20 reissue vs K-2 vs MS-20m

Post Sat Jan 25, 2020 10:22 am

today I'd buy the mini again.
the "m" would be my first choice if available, but it's gone.
k2 only for a eurocrack setup.

User avatar
pdxindy
KVRAF
16318 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds

Re: MS-20 vintage vs MS-20 mini vs MS-20 reissue vs K-2 vs MS-20m

Post Sat Jan 25, 2020 12:28 pm

I played with the K2 in the store for about 2 hours. I was disappointed with the sound. Too small and fiddly, but if the sound was great then okay... but to me it wasn't/ins't

mobe
KVRer
2 posts since 2 Aug, 2016

Re: MS-20 vintage vs MS-20 mini vs MS-20 reissue vs K-2 vs MS-20m

Post Sun Jan 26, 2020 1:03 am

Stefken wrote:
Mon Jan 20, 2020 10:43 am
No, that's not my question (it's between brackets) but if people want to talk about the best bang for the buck that's cool too.

The sound difference of the K-2 matters for me personally as it has a smaller sweetspot, the resonance does not go as far in overdrive and it sounds somewhat Moogish. So it's not 95% for me. In fact, I don't consider it a good clone of the MS -20. Too Moogish sounding.

https://youtu.be/4hjyai6uq6s

But I find it somewhat a frustrating situation as there is always something 'wrong'.
To put it bluntly.
The price of the re-issue is over the top. The mini is a cheap copy: badly build and has a noise issue. The k-2 is cheap but didn't nail the character. The original? Not so easy to find, no midi. The vst is a pretty poor emulation.

Compare this with e.g. the Behringer Odyssey: no brainer: it's cheap, build like a tank and sounds good.

So, I wonder what other people think and considering all factors what they would go for.
Personally, I think I would go for the mini.
It nails the sound pretty good and I think I could live with somewhat a lesser build. And the price is not over the top for a hobby.

But I've never used a mini.

If I were a pro I guess I would go for the re-issue but as a hobbyist it's hard to justify this.
I have to agree with you on this. The K-2 is the worst copy of a legacy hardware synth made by Behringer so far. Just go and make it cheap, as if know one really cared about the sound. Sure with hardware there will always be a difference, this one is far off though from the original. It's ok though if you just need a hardware synth and don't care about authenticity or anything. In that case I'd go for the Pro-1, much better sounding than the K-2.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQyoSLlCpzc

Fun fact: Behringer claims they rebuild all analog but sometimes they do not. In the case of the Pro-1 for example the filter is controlled by a digital ADSR.

kritikon
KVRAF
5124 posts since 24 May, 2002 from Tutukaka, New Zealand

Re: MS-20 vintage vs MS-20 mini vs MS-20 reissue vs K-2 vs MS-20m

Post Sun Jan 26, 2020 3:12 pm

Stefken wrote: "YES! That's what I want, I want it to scream like a pig.

How do you fare the vst vs the original in general? Even for non-screaming sounds, I find the vst a bit tame."

I really quite like the VST for most general purposes. Specifically I can get it close to most MS20 general sounds and I can get chords. Having grown up with monosynths, I never underestimate the power of s/w. Any analogue user will tell you how much they wanted to be able to play chords with things like MS10s and 20s, OSCars, Pro1s etc, and decent ploysynths were out of range for most of us. Now I can, and I love it.

For absolute sure the VST can't go bonkers like the original, but for those type of sounds, you tend to only want mono notes anyway. If I patch up a sound like Marathon Man drilling a sabre-toothed tiger's teeth...I'm not going to be playing chords with it. So for everday use the VST does most of everything I want. It can do Dr Who sounds ok, and it can play them in chords...anything in chords I tend not to have lots of resonance and it's only extreme resonance that tends to differentiate s/w from h/w (alongside crossmod and distortion). So, yeah I rate the VST. It doesn't exactly replace the original, but it sure as hell expands on it.
Also any h/w player will tell you it's the hands-on that trumps s/w. What I often do with the hw is to have a riff going and just muck about with knobs on the fly and record. It'll end up morphing into completely different sound and different territory. I "can" do that with sw but it's a complete PITA and in no way spontaneous, and I just don't do it because it's no fun. Whereas any of the hw versions will tempt you in to work that way. I find the VST has most of the character of the original I want for normal stuff. But when I go full on experimental or just plain loud, the VST won't cut it...and the Behringer doesn't either (not from any demoes I've heard).

You "can" add distortion to any sound. But I've played around with lots of distortion both sw and hw. And no distortion I've ever used comes close to the real distortion you get on synth filters. Even Oscars...I absolutely love impOSCar, but I had an OSCar back in the day, and it's not a patch on that lovely creaminess you got on the filter drive for real. And the OSCar was tame compared to the MS20. I ended up with pedals (distortion and overdrive) yet none of them are like the MS20. Very useful in their own right though...I still use an old boss bass guitar overdrive for synths even today. Makes even a boring Juno come alive (and that takes some doing).

Would I use the VST instead of a 20? 90% of the time...probably, and I do. Other 10%, not even close. Is the VST money well spent? Hell yes. Would I use it if I didn't have a real one? Hell yes. Should you choose one over the other? No, at the knock down price you'd be silly not to have the VST alongside a hw version.
When money permits, I'll probably have all 3...original, VST and a reissue. The mini...I'm really unsure about. I do however think it's a reasonable price. Can't see myself buying a k2 even at the bargain price....but I will be buying other Behringer analogues. The ProOne emu is top of my list, and close behind any number of their semimodular new thingies. And the eurorack will be going on the future list.

Echoes in the Attic
KVRAF
7723 posts since 12 May, 2008

Re: MS-20 vintage vs MS-20 mini vs MS-20 reissue vs K-2 vs MS-20m

Post Sun Jan 26, 2020 3:31 pm

The Korg MS-20 VST is kind of crap for the sounds that made the MS-20 great. Diva MS-20 modules are much better. Still doesn't completely nail the MS-20 but not bad and at least sounds pretty analog. A couple of nice phat analog sounding oscillators with ring mod into The Drop is a pretty great way to go.
System: Windows 10, Dell XPS 2-in-1, Bitwig 3, Steinberg UR44.

Stefken
KVRAF
1858 posts since 9 Nov, 2016

Re: MS-20 vintage vs MS-20 mini vs MS-20 reissue vs K-2 vs MS-20m

Post Mon Jan 27, 2020 5:23 am

kritikon wrote:
Sun Jan 26, 2020 3:12 pm
Stefken wrote: "YES! That's what I want, I want it to scream like a pig.

How do you fare the vst vs the original in general? Even for non-screaming sounds, I find the vst a bit tame."

I really quite like the VST for most general purposes. Specifically I can get it close to most MS20 general sounds and I can get chords. Having grown up with monosynths, I never underestimate the power of s/w. Any analogue user will tell you how much they wanted to be able to play chords with things like MS10s and 20s, OSCars, Pro1s etc, and decent ploysynths were out of range for most of us. Now I can, and I love it.

For absolute sure the VST can't go bonkers like the original, but for those type of sounds, you tend to only want mono notes anyway. If I patch up a sound like Marathon Man drilling a sabre-toothed tiger's teeth...I'm not going to be playing chords with it. So for everday use the VST does most of everything I want. It can do Dr Who sounds ok, and it can play them in chords...anything in chords I tend not to have lots of resonance and it's only extreme resonance that tends to differentiate s/w from h/w (alongside crossmod and distortion). So, yeah I rate the VST. It doesn't exactly replace the original, but it sure as hell expands on it.
Also any h/w player will tell you it's the hands-on that trumps s/w. What I often do with the hw is to have a riff going and just muck about with knobs on the fly and record. It'll end up morphing into completely different sound and different territory. I "can" do that with sw but it's a complete PITA and in no way spontaneous, and I just don't do it because it's no fun. Whereas any of the hw versions will tempt you in to work that way. I find the VST has most of the character of the original I want for normal stuff. But when I go full on experimental or just plain loud, the VST won't cut it...and the Behringer doesn't either (not from any demoes I've heard).

You "can" add distortion to any sound. But I've played around with lots of distortion both sw and hw. And no distortion I've ever used comes close to the real distortion you get on synth filters. Even Oscars...I absolutely love impOSCar, but I had an OSCar back in the day, and it's not a patch on that lovely creaminess you got on the filter drive for real. And the OSCar was tame compared to the MS20. I ended up with pedals (distortion and overdrive) yet none of them are like the MS20. Very useful in their own right though...I still use an old boss bass guitar overdrive for synths even today. Makes even a boring Juno come alive (and that takes some doing).

Would I use the VST instead of a 20? 90% of the time...probably, and I do. Other 10%, not even close. Is the VST money well spent? Hell yes. Would I use it if I didn't have a real one? Hell yes. Should you choose one over the other? No, at the knock down price you'd be silly not to have the VST alongside a hw version.
When money permits, I'll probably have all 3...original, VST and a reissue. The mini...I'm really unsure about. I do however think it's a reasonable price. Can't see myself buying a k2 even at the bargain price....but I will be buying other Behringer analogues. The ProOne emu is top of my list, and close behind any number of their semimodular new thingies. And the eurorack will be going on the future list.
Thank you for handing out some of your experience. Very interesting read.

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