Understanding electronic music composing.

Chords, scales, harmony, melody, etc.
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vurt
addled muppet weed
58852 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Post Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:07 am

do not mock my library!

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Hink
Rad Grandad
30549 posts since 6 Sep, 2003 from Downeast Maine

Re: Understanding electronic music composing.

Post Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:19 am

viewtopic.php?p=7639805#p7639805

I was just trying to stay hip
Albert Einstein may have been a genius but his brother Frank was a monster

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vurt
addled muppet weed
58852 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Understanding electronic music composing.

Post Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:27 am

/casts :confusion wind: on hink.

rolls double 6.
instant success.

NKF
KVRist
69 posts since 6 Jun, 2012 from USA

Re: Understanding electronic music composing.

Post Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:43 pm

Composition is the craft of using as little material to say what you want to say.

It is the same process regardless of medium. It Is something most people don’t do. Most people have no conceptual design and also I suppose it is art, it is often more superficial and derivative than a bubble gum pop track.

Brahms was particularly good at using say a.note sequence and that entire 1 hour work is derived from that one idea.

I think 99% of dance producers are micro djing. They aren’t really creating. They are just plug and play using frameworks that are arbitrary and then superimpose elements that could be something else. Sounds are just thrown in.

It is just an aesthetic of parsimony. Few do it and nobody will notice if you do as nobody listens to music beyond the superficial familiar expectation and reward.

SoundsfromSlowry
KVRer
3 posts since 21 Jan, 2020

Re: Understanding electronic music composing.

Post Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:28 am

Just my two cents on this conversation....I would agree that chords aren't generally the starting point for a composition. It's best to have a melody as the concept for what you want to communicate, and then use the harmonizing chords to make it more powerful and appealing. But, of course, getting the inspiration for a melody is not always and easy thing to do. That's the heart of what the art is.

So, if you don't have a melody in mind, then I do think that using the notes of chords can be a starting point, like a scratch pad, for searching for a series of notes that go well together. And if your musical angels are smiling upon you that day, you may end up creating a piece of music that you really like.

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Forgotten
KVRAF
8525 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: Understanding electronic music composing.

Post Fri Jan 24, 2020 7:45 am

Nothing wrong starting with chords if the instrument supports it (strumming a guitar, banging out block chords on a piano, etc.), but as you say, typically you harmonize a melody and chords are formed as a result of those additional voices being layered on.

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vurt
addled muppet weed
58852 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Understanding electronic music composing.

Post Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:19 am

start with the drums...

Kongru
KVRian
939 posts since 23 Feb, 2017

Re: Understanding electronic music composing.

Post Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:23 am

vurt wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:27 am
/casts :confusion wind: on hink.

rolls double 6.
instant success.
Is that WoW or DnD?
Signatures are so early 2000s.

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vurt
addled muppet weed
58852 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Understanding electronic music composing.

Post Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:24 am

Kongru wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:23 am
vurt wrote:
Sun Jan 19, 2020 9:27 am
/casts :confusion wind: on hink.

rolls double 6.
instant success.
Is that WoW or DnD?
warhammer!

in battle there is no laaaaaw!!!!!

NKF
KVRist
69 posts since 6 Jun, 2012 from USA

Re: Understanding electronic music composing.

Post Fri Jan 24, 2020 8:33 am

it is all about intent , knowing what has been done , doing something differently.

When you use chords or melody to sound like the past without understanding how people understood how chords come about and worked , you get this weird antiquated pastiche aesthetic that doesn’t realize it. It is a parody without intending to be and that is the issue.

Schoenberg made some music that I just don’t get , but you have to understand that at his time, he realized that there was nowhere to go in terms of melody or harmony using the current building blocks. He was able and demonstrated with ease his mastery of the late classical idiom. It would be completely different somehow if you had no idea what you were doing and your noise was essentially riding on people not knowing better. It’s a weird thing to talk about because I don’t think thighs need to be good. I wish they were.

Much like using a template of harmony and melody is not pointless if you are exploring other areas. When everything is a template, I suppose if your work doesn’t need to exist because there is nothing new or novel regardless of the output, it might serve a purpose but it is the definition of shitty art. You are just replacing a hammer with the same hammer , at the same cost with shittier material but not more environmentally friendly, and when questioned about the hammer that people will use because it is what is sold, when your answer is , there is another hammer ? You mean I wasted my time doing the same thing but worse , with no qualities that you could argue as redeeming , well unless you say it is a social statement , and you can only pull a John cage so many times, it’s just .... blahhhh

I often advise people that learning music theory is pointless if you are going to spend a few years. You learn enough to fall into the trap that things work this way and your creation is guided by arbitrary rules you don’t know are arbitrary.

I’ve always been able to find value in music in every genre but it’s really getting hard to find things worth listening to. I’m sure they are there. Hope. I’m optimistic despite what might seem like pessimism.

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vurt
addled muppet weed
58852 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Understanding electronic music composing.

Post Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:45 pm

i already have a hammer thanks.
which youve now inspired me to use in a composition somehow... (no! i will not be a boring git and sample it for beats or whatever)
might use it as modulation through a contact mic :wheee:

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Forgotten
KVRAF
8525 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere

Re: Understanding electronic music composing.

Post Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:56 pm

vurt wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:45 pm
i already have a hammer thanks.
which youve now inspired me to use in a composition somehow... (no! i will not be a boring git and sample it for beats or whatever)
might use it as modulation through a contact mic :wheee:
Whatever the results, I’m sure you’ll nail it...

...I’ll get my coat...

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Unaspected
KVRian
1186 posts since 4 May, 2012

Re: Understanding electronic music composing.

Post Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:58 pm

NKF wrote:
Thu Jan 23, 2020 8:43 pm
Composition is the craft of using as little material to say what you want to say.
I was just casually reading but had to sign in to say this is a very elegant way to approach things - especially from an engineering perspective.

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vurt
addled muppet weed
58852 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Understanding electronic music composing.

Post Fri Jan 24, 2020 1:01 pm

Forgotten wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:56 pm
vurt wrote:
Fri Jan 24, 2020 12:45 pm
i already have a hammer thanks.
which youve now inspired me to use in a composition somehow... (no! i will not be a boring git and sample it for beats or whatever)
might use it as modulation through a contact mic :wheee:
Whatever the results, I’m sure you’ll nail it...

...I’ll get my coat...

get him!

a tack!!!! :smack:

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jancivil
KVRAF
19406 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from No Location

Re: Understanding electronic music composing.

Post Fri Jan 24, 2020 4:04 pm

Stamped Records wrote:
Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:41 am
modes themselves are categorised loosely by their major or minor root chord
A mode, or a key for that matter, cannot be said to have a “root”, because that term regards a chord. A key has a tonic, and I have always said ‘tonic’ regarding a mode as well. It is how every Indian Classical Musician I ever heard or saw discuss the matter calls it, anyway.

Modes are already “categorized” beyond any question before we ascribe any chord to one. So, this is backwards and unnecessary.
Real modal music, eg., ICM, Arabic or Persian CM, is_not founded in chords. Modal usage in The Church, polyphonic if not monophonic, predates chords by a fairly substantial amt. of time. Confounding tonal, functional harmonic usage with modes is a mistake. i to IV7 ‘in Dorian’ is ii to V7 in the major one tone down. You might can manage but you have to establish ‘i’ for dead certain.
Rock music leaning on modes, well, everyone seems to know to keep it basic. Vanilla i to IV for Dorian... Vanilla I to (b)VII for Mixolydian. The mode has its flavor, more chord action is not more flavor per se, soon it amounts to destroying it.The idea is to enhance by the flavor tone; IV contains the Dorian ^6. bVII gives the flavor tone of Mixo.

Locrian ‘i’ is a diminished triad. I suppose the other six can have a major or minor tonic chord, but this can’t be the identifier. Logically, I, major, is true for Ionian, Lydian, & Mixolydian, then minor i occurs for Dorian, Aeolian, & Phrygian, so the obvious insufficiency for such is glaring.

So nothing of the assertion there is true. It isn’t unfair to say it’s nonsense. ‘absolutely’ is redundant.
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