MIDI2 - awesome for synths, effects & daws

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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kevvvvv
vvvvvvv
2386 posts since 24 Oct, 2000 from skelmersdale, west lancs, uk

Post Tue Jan 28, 2020 7:26 am

Am so chuffed with this advance.

Everything can talk to everything else.

But not sure if this will put me off buying anything new until MIDI2 is everywhere.
Member 12, Studio One 4, Avenger 1.5 + 14 xps, Dune 3, Microtonic drums, Pigments, Arturia 6, Atom & Impact XT, Izotope Neutron & Ozone, Valhalla, Spire, Sasquatch Kick 2, Panagement

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vurt
addled muppet weed
58956 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: MIDI2 - awesome for synths, effects & daws

Post Tue Jan 28, 2020 7:31 am

kevvvvv wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 7:26 am


Everything can talk to everything else.

tower of babel for synths :o

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kevvvvv
vvvvvvv
2386 posts since 24 Oct, 2000 from skelmersdale, west lancs, uk

Re: MIDI2 - awesome for synths, effects & daws

Post Tue Jan 28, 2020 7:38 am

that too
but with loads of practical good in its wake
Member 12, Studio One 4, Avenger 1.5 + 14 xps, Dune 3, Microtonic drums, Pigments, Arturia 6, Atom & Impact XT, Izotope Neutron & Ozone, Valhalla, Spire, Sasquatch Kick 2, Panagement

e-crooner
KVRian
1099 posts since 22 Aug, 2019

Re: MIDI2 - awesome for synths, effects & daws

Post Tue Jan 28, 2020 9:36 am

I assume it will be compatible with Midi 1, right?
New standards can take a long time to spread. Think of VST3.

BBFG#
KVRAF
5868 posts since 28 Apr, 2013

Re: MIDI2 - awesome for synths, effects & daws

Post Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:18 am

I agree it's a bad time to buy hardware because of this. But it hasn't even been finalized yet. I read in most of these reports it is still "subject to change" and being an early adopter could be a problem down the road. Two other things I currently consider more is if the USB is USB 3 and if there's an editor, if it's 64 bit.

mrsugmad
KVRist
186 posts since 30 Nov, 2007

Re: MIDI2 - awesome for synths, effects & daws

Post Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:54 am


CapnLockheed
KVRAF
2304 posts since 12 Mar, 2002 from Central NY

Re: MIDI2 - awesome for synths, effects & daws

Post Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:56 am

Sounds great on paper. Personally, I've never been an "early adopter" of ANYTHING.
I'd rather let someone else pony up the big bucks for the privilege of being a paying
beta tester. A lot things show promise even after they go into production but if they are not adopted as the de-facto standard for all manufacturers you can end up with an expensive paperweight. The betamax was a better format than VHS. :lol: Memory cards are another good example. SD won. I'd rather wait, pay less and buy something I know will be around for a while.
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KVRian
806 posts since 20 Feb, 2003

Re: MIDI2 - awesome for synths, effects & daws

Post Tue Jan 28, 2020 11:20 am

It holds the potential to be huge for virtual instruments. However, having hardware controllers which support it is only the start of fixing problems.

Whilst we'll likely see plugins, which can "speak" MIDI 2 directly, in order to take full advantage (for all plugins which already exist) it won't just depend on your DAW host software implementing MIDI 2, it will also depend on the way they allow MIDI 2 to speak to existing host automation.

Many people never understood the difference between MIDI CC data and host automation. Host automation avoids problems with MIDI, but it's been held back for decades by the difficulty hardware has had in communicating with it, mostly because we've been stuck with MIDI 1, along with the failure of major companies to come up with better solutions.

MIDI 2 means there's finally light at the end of the tunnel, and virtual instruments potentially have the most to gain from all of this. But a lot depends on how this stuff is implemented.

retroactivecont
KVRer
19 posts since 22 Sep, 2017

Re: MIDI2 - awesome for synths, effects & daws

Post Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:25 pm

Will MPE be a standard with MIDI 2.0?

cron
KVRAF
3287 posts since 27 Dec, 2002 from North East England

Re: MIDI2 - awesome for synths, effects & daws

Post Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:38 pm

retroactivecont wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:25 pm
Will MPE be a standard with MIDI 2.0?
MIDI 2.0 is AFAIK 100% backward compatible with MIDI 1.0, so there's no obvious reason why the current implementation shouldn't still be usable. 'Native' MIDI 2.0 will completely surpass it though.

Any devs care to chime in on how difficult MIDI 2.0 support will be to implement? While I don't expect MIDI 2.0 support to instantly appear, particularly given the slow uptake of MPE, I'm wondering if software labouring under an old codebase might have trouble here. I'm thinking along the lines of the troubles Cubase has with VST2 sidechaining, or the troubles Live has with complete PDC implementation.

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Sampleconstruct
KVRAF
15050 posts since 12 Oct, 2008 from Here and there

Re: MIDI2 - awesome for synths, effects & daws

Post Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:58 pm

Higher resolution of parameters like velocity and basically any Midi controller data will be highly beneficial.

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nix808
KVRAF
4019 posts since 22 Jul, 2006 from Tasmania, Australia

Re: MIDI2 - awesome for synths, effects & daws

Post Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:06 pm

will it be microtonal?

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
19307 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: MIDI2 - awesome for synths, effects & daws

Post Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:25 pm

Each note on supports additional tuning parameter, so yes.

pottering
KVRian
791 posts since 14 Dec, 2014

Re: MIDI2 - awesome for synths, effects & daws

Post Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:39 pm

cron wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:38 pm
or the troubles Live has with complete PDC implementation.
Recently I was thinking about it, and reached the conclusion Ableton made a conscious choice about PDC for devices loaded as audio effects.

Live has modulator devices that load as audio effects and can be synced to the main transport (for example, Live's LFO loads as an audio effect).

Those modulator devices can modulate things before their position in the chain, not only audio FX, but also generator devices (synths, samplers, etc.), or even earlier in the signal flow, in the MIDI Effects section. In fact, even in other tracks, one LFO can control parameters in synths in 10 different tracks.

So Ableton had to choose, either those devices were latency-compensated and then would get out of sync with the generators (since latency compensation would delay their start, even affecting/delaying actual MIDI notes in the case of modulated MIDI FX), or those devices keep synced to the transport and start with it (which gets them out of sync with delayed audio from plugins with latency, which is the problem people complain of now).

Ableton own devices are not audio FX, they don't affect audio, and the 3rd party plugins that have problems are very few, the problem only happens in a few scenarios (not every time you use those plugins), and there are easy solution to fix the sync (MIDI trigger, a phase knob), so Ableton made a choice and picked the latter option, preserving their flexible modulation system with a pretty small cost to the user.

Cinebient
KVRAF
4442 posts since 16 Nov, 2014

Re: MIDI2 - awesome for synths, effects & daws

Post Tue Jan 28, 2020 1:49 pm

Isn‘t it already baked in audio/midi setup since macOS Catalina?

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