KVR Audio

Kongru · Post by **Kongru** » Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:26 am

I left Ableton years ago because I was completely underwhelmed with it. I really didn't know why it was popular, it had half the amount of features as other DAWs and costs twice as much. I had Ableton Live 9 Suite but never bothered to install Max for Live. That was my mistake.

Now I've got Live 10 Suite and am fully invested in M4L - it's a revelation. However don't think Ableton without M4L is strong enough to compete on features with DAWs such as Cubase.

Kinh · Post by **Kinh** » Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:39 am

ckam03 wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 5:18 am
Kinh wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 4:28 am If pweeple leave a daw like Ableton it's because they're lookin' for somethin' that cannot be found, somethin' that has a magic button dat does all Z work for you. Ya wastin' ya time. Do tha work ya-selves, spend time developin' ya skills. You dig? Dont blame the tools is wha-I'm sayin'.
Who do I blame then for Ableton not having MPE? You? Jesus?

I dont think not havin' one feature warrants leaving an entire daw. Ya gotsta looks at Z features it does have and how they're bwetter dan other daws

DrGonzo · Post by **DrGonzo** » Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:55 am

I'm currently in the transition from Live to Logic and while I have enjoyed being on Live for years, I've felt the last couple of updates have been... I don't know. Weird. Maybe I will be back to Live some day but right now I feel happy to work in a proper arrangement view and having a simple way to do comping.

/C

drdriller · Post by **drdriller** » Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:56 am

i came back to ableton because i was blind.

i used it from 2005 to 2008, after period on fruity loops, reason and cubase..

then i stuck on maschine for 8 years (+ mulab for mixing), and came back to ableton a few month ago

i just upgraded to suite yesterday and bought a push 2 today, i plan to make a few tracks with stock plugins only (i didn't really used stock with standard version), and stock samples too (instead of komplete instrument and maschine + expansion + kshrm samples)

i found bitwig interesting but it didn't really catch me.

tooneba · Post by **tooneba** » Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:59 am

Kongru wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:26 amM4L - it's a revelation. However don't think Ableton without M4L is strong enough to compete on features with DAWs such as Cubase.

M4L is like a crutch you keep fingers crossed that you won't come across backward compatibility issue, unlike their rock solid native devices.

Kongru · Post by **Kongru** » Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:05 am

tooneba wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:59 am
Kongru wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:26 amM4L - it's a revelation. However don't think Ableton without M4L is strong enough to compete on features with DAWs such as Cubase.
M4L is like a crutch you keep fingers crossed that you won't come across backward compatibility issue, unlike their rock solid native devices.

I've often thought about that, so far so good although something could happen in the future. However my understanding is that the native devices are also coded in Max?

pdxindy · Post by **pdxindy** » Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:21 am

I left Live cause I was buying a Linnstrument and wanted a DAW that supported MPE. Live doesn't... it cannot even record PolyAT.

M4L was too buggy and caused a lot of crashes. I eventually just stopped using M4L and then Live was solid and I was generally happy with it.

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:25 am

I stopped using Live 9 suite and moved to Bitwig as I was very underwhelmed with the 10 update (it didn't address most of the top features that users had been requesting on the official Ableton poll for years...) and I could buy Bitwig at the time for the cost of the 9 -10 suite upgrade! Never looked back- will probably sell Live at some point, but I had been with it since V4 so have been hanging on to it for old time sake, but 'for me' Bitwig does everything 'I' need better (FYI- I am not a DJ and I don't play 'Live' with a DAW or use PUSH, I am more into experimental sound design, ambient, soundscape and linear composition than loop triggering...I do use MPE and CV a lot)

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:40 am

So, everyone left Live in favor of Bitwig, and the Bitwig thread posed the initial question why everyone left Bitwig. KVR, you make so much sense.

Negativism must be so much fun. I should try it one day.

tooneba · Post by **tooneba** » Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:46 am

Kongru wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 10:05 am However my understanding is that the native devices are also coded in Max?

I think Live is on C++.

Obsolete236871 · Post by **Obsolete236871** » Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:00 am

Kongru wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 9:26 am I left Ableton years ago because I was completely underwhelmed with it. I really didn't know why it was popular, it had half the amount of features as other DAWs and costs twice as much. I had Ableton Live 9 Suite but never bothered to install Max for Live. That was my mistake.

Now I've got Live 10 Suite and am fully invested in M4L - it's a revelation. However don't think Ableton without M4L is strong enough to compete on features with DAWs such as Cubase.

I don't think it's supposed to compete with Cubase. Obviously there is a lot of overlap between what Ableton does and what Cubase can do, but they follow different paradigms.

I'm a longtime Cubase user, but lately do a lot of quick compositions in my Ableton Live Lite version (only 8 tracks and misses a lot of the standard bundled effects, instruments and sample content, but you can use third party VSTs and your own samples + it has the great Simpler on board, which is a fantastic tool for creative sample work) .

Some things are much easier and quicker to do in Ableton and it's indeed better suited for "modern music production" approaches that mostly relies on samples and "in the box" instruments and effects, not so much for elaborate recording and detailed midi + audio editing where Cubase shines.

The Ableton interface is much better designed and straightforward if you just want to quickly play and record some melodies, bass lines, drums etc. It requires less clicks, everything is available right in the one window interface and it takes less clicks to get basic things done.

Of course there are also the many advantages of the non-linear Session View to quickly try some ideas out and eventually turn them into a full arrangement. On my smaller, mid-resolution screen the Cubase interface seems much more cluttered than Ableton's one window implementation. Maybe I need to get a new display, but if Ableton manages to make it work on lower resolution screens, why can't Steinberg?

Robmobius · Post by **Robmobius** » Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:01 am

I did leave Ableton for Logic at one point, but then I went back to Ableton...

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:28 am

Robmobius wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:01 am I did leave Ableton for Logic at one point, but then I went back to Ableton...

What part of "why" don't you understand?

antic604 · Post by **antic604** » Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:31 am

Izak Synthiemental wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:00 amOn my smaller, mid-resolution screen the Cubase interface seems much more cluttered than Ableton's one window implementation. Maybe I need to get a new display, but if Ableton manages to make it work on lower resolution screens, why can't Steinberg?

Assuming that by "small, mid-resolution screen" you mean 20-something inches and 1440p then indeed Cubase struggles, because it doesn't properly support high-DPI screens - it does either 100% or 200% Windows scaling (nothing in between) and does nothing for plugins that are not high-DPI aware. Ableton (along with Bitwig or S1) is much smarter about this, indeed.

Kongru · Post by **Kongru** » Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:31 am

antic604 wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:28 am
Robmobius wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2020 11:01 am I did leave Ableton for Logic at one point, but then I went back to Ableton...
What part of "why" don't you understand?

Ooo, bitey.

(Just kidding, please don't hurt me.)

Why you left Ableton?