Why you left VSTs?

Anything about hardware musical instruments.
User avatar
Russell Grand
KVRAF
2640 posts since 22 May, 2017

Post Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:08 pm

vurt wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 3:21 pm
using hardware is very much like making love to a beautiful woman but the occasional "cyber sex" session can be fun too.
Decent analogy. :tu:

chk071
KVRAF
24137 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Why you left VSTs?

Post Mon Feb 10, 2020 11:11 pm

CapnLockheed wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 8:51 pm
I quit using hardware years ago because I got tired of not being allowed to re-sell it or having to pay exorbitant license transfer fees to do so.
I assume you mean software?
Plugins and a DAW. On a operating system. Which runs on a computer.

AdvancedFollower
KVRian
636 posts since 8 May, 2018 from Sweden

Re: Why you left VSTs?

Post Tue Feb 11, 2020 1:52 am

Hardware is fun but there's no way I'd be able to afford the "wall of synths" needed to replicate everything I own in plugin form. When you can pick up a Jupiter 8 or Synthex for €150 I'll switch to hardware only :tu:

User avatar
pekbro
KVRAF
2958 posts since 29 Sep, 2010 from Maui

Re: Why you left VSTs?

Post Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:12 am

I still like software, just not overly interested in buying it any more.

User avatar
foosnark
KVRAF
5200 posts since 9 Jan, 2003 from Saint Louis MO

Re: Why you left VSTs?

Post Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:41 am

kvotchin wrote:
Mon Feb 10, 2020 10:21 pm
Wrong. I have a Eurorack setup, ever-expanding. I also have a lot of VSTs that are equally “out there” and capable.
OK then. You have a very different perspective on things than I do. For me, getting into Eurorack was transformative, and it helped me find my voice.

The piano-roll-and-VST-plugin workflow I gave up has no equivalent to:

- separating rhythmic sequencing from pitch/parameter sequencing, and gate/trigger processing in general.

- using a matrix mixer to combine gates from a clock divider, as a sort of adjustable nonlinear quad DAC, to create four simultaneous streams of CVs.

- patching two Rings in a feedback loop with each other and tapping two different points in the loop for mid/side stereo.

- doing dynamic exponential FM and using a third oscillator and a PLL to maintain the pitch tracking.

- using a wavefolder with a sawtooth and a second signal mixed, to create phase modulation

- audio-rate crosspanning of two slightly detuned oscillators

- pinging a dual peak filter with triggers and FMing one of the peaks

- analog aliasing, in the form of switched-capacitor filters and unfiltered BBDs

There were definitely blind spots in my synthesis techniques before I got into modular. The whole Buchla "West Coast" style of synthesis for instance -- Aalto existed but people barely talked about it, and Arturia's Easel emulation didn't exist yet. But I found I really love wavefolding and other "distortion synthesis", FM (well beyond Chowning/Yamaha stuff) and LPGs.

Also, feedback and audio-rate modulation is almost universally disappointing in the VST world, and feedback often has to be "hacked" in even with something like Bitwig. I love working with resonators and tuned delay lines in ways I just don't see in plugins.

When I make music with modular I don't even think in terms of "notes." Complementary pitches certainly, consonant frequency ratios for modulation, etc. sure. I work a lot with drones and plenty of hands-on control (sometimes combined with simple sequences, but more often with algorithmic or generative sequences). It is a very different experience from drawing rectangles on a piano roll or recording keyboard noodling.

User avatar
foosnark
KVRAF
5200 posts since 9 Jan, 2003 from Saint Louis MO

Re: Why you left VSTs?

Post Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:30 am

(And for what it's worth, I haven't "left VSTs." I still, maybe for 1 recording out of 12 or so, use a software synth... though with much more of a "modular" approach.

I don't build songs in a sequencer (that's another difference from before I was into hardware) and I don't multitrack -- I set up and record the full thing live, hands on faders and knobs and switches or the Lyra or Reface as needed. So when I do use VST instruments, they're either droning, or manually played, or just looping a short sequence that I'll bring up with a fader or manually bypass/enable during recording.

I use VST effects a lot along with some effects hardware. And I use Bitwig Grid for routing stuff and occasional hardware/software modular integration. E.g. I don't have a harmonic oscillator in Eurorack, but I built a simple one in Grid that I can control from my faderbank and/or keyboard.)

billybong
Banned
94 posts since 18 Dec, 2019

Re: Why you left VSTs?

Post Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:33 am

pekbro wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 4:12 am
I still like software, just not overly interested in buying it any more.
This.

dellboy
KVRian
1240 posts since 28 Mar, 2007

Re: Why you left VSTs?

Post Tue Feb 11, 2020 5:51 am

If you live in a small flat with no available space then a laptop and VSTs along with a small controller is the only viable option. :(

But if you have your own dedicated music room with available space then lots of lovely hardware is your only viable option. :hihi:

Robmobius
KVRAF
3528 posts since 10 Sep, 2010 from A shit hole (Ireland).

Re: Why you left VSTs?

Post Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:08 am

I think HW sounds better than software overall.
I still like software of course but more on the fx side as opposed to sw synths - But whatever floats 'yer boat.
“Human decency is not derived from religion. It precedes it.”
― Christopher Hitchens

chk071
KVRAF
24137 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Why you left VSTs?

Post Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:09 am

Every now and then, I think about getting a piece of hardware. Pretty quickly, reality grasps myself again. :D Lack of space, cables, no multiple instances of the synth, bouncing, tedious programming, unless you buy a expensive hardware synth with a decent knob for function ratio... and, on some hardware synths you don't even have patch memory. On the plus side, there is the hands on factor, and probably also the fact that you will spend more time learning the machine inside out, because you paid a lot of money for it, and, it simply is more motivation to work on something tangible.

On balance, a lot of con's against a handful of pro's for me. Say: Not worth it. Maybe one day, if I go really nuts. :P At the moment, I can't even justify to spend more money on software. It's fine though, I'm OK with what I have (think I own some of the finest synths and fx's by now, at least from my view point).
Plugins and a DAW. On a operating system. Which runs on a computer.

dellboy
KVRian
1240 posts since 28 Mar, 2007

Re: Why you left VSTs?

Post Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:35 am

chk071 wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:09 am
cables, no multiple instances of the synth, bouncing, tedious programming, unless you buy a expensive hardware synth with a decent knob for function ratio... and, on some hardware synths you don't even have patch memory
Cool - these are plus points not negatives. :D

A bit like steam trains versus boring modern electrics.

Or very soon - even worse - coming to a road near you - boring electric cars versus the wonderful internal combustion engine.

chk071
KVRAF
24137 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Why you left VSTs?

Post Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:42 am

dellboy wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:35 am
Or very soon - even worse - coming to a road near you - boring electric cars versus the wonderful internal combustion engine.
Not to turn this thread HPC, but, you could easily argue that that's actually a step back. Lack of range, accumulators making the cars very heavy, not really green energy powered due to the non resolvable dependance on fossile energy sources, accumulators getting old/less performant, very high price because of the high production expense. Actually, for the most part, it's two steps back, instead of one forward. Just because mass hysteria. But, people will come to their senses again, one day, when Greta, and all those starry-eyed idealists in her jetstream will be gone for good, and decent people will take over again. Maybe in 50 years or something.
Plugins and a DAW. On a operating system. Which runs on a computer.

User avatar
vurt
addled muppet weed
65613 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Why you left VSTs?

Post Tue Feb 11, 2020 6:44 am

you wanna play gta? fine...

some of us got product to shift in the real world.

vitocorleone123
KVRian
553 posts since 30 Jun, 2014 from Pacific NW

Re: Why you left VSTs?

Post Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:03 am

Here we go again....

Make music. No way of doing it is superior. What works well for some sucks for others. Your way is NOT the best way... except MAYBE for you.

What works for me is all VST all the time, except for an analog hardware monosynth and an analog hardware polysynth, both desktop versions.

dellboy
KVRian
1240 posts since 28 Mar, 2007

Re: Why you left VSTs?

Post Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:25 am

vitocorleone123 wrote:
Tue Feb 11, 2020 7:03 am
Here we go again....

Make music. No way of doing it is superior. What works well for some sucks for others. Your way is NOT the best way... except MAYBE for you.

What works for me is all VST all the time, except for an analog hardware monosynth and an analog hardware polysynth, both desktop versions.
Hardware is most definitely superior -------------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------When there is no electric plug.

Return to “Hardware (Instruments and Effects)”