Can't stop playing with XLN's XO...Is it just me?

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
yellowmix
KVRAF
1563 posts since 11 Aug, 2012 from omfr morf form romf frmo

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:24 am

Ploki wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:39 am
Which means i can't do all my drums in one thing, and if i need to have more things anyway i dont want one to be so packed with feature i wont use
Understandable. I do find XO to be excellent for loop-based audio workflows. That is something I normally do not do but XO's encouraged it and who am I to resist when the results are good? Another workflow it's suited for is if you're starting with really good samples that don't require processing beyond what XO already offers, which is quite a lot. The factory samples are really good.

My ultimate AI drum machine would combine the best of XO, MPC, Battery, and Geist, but some of those design goals are diametrically opposed to each other. So I'm okay with mixing and matching and going with whatever tool is right for the job.

BERFAB
KVRAF
6238 posts since 25 Mar, 2004

Re: Can't stop playing with XLN's XO...Is it just me?

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:34 am

yellowmix wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:45 am
BERFAB wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:10 am
So you can save the full processed kits to Battery 4 and Geist 2? And the layout is preserved? That's huge. So that's how I'll save my kits. Can't wait to try this. Thank you!

Functionality would still be best preserved by allowing kit-saving within XO, but for now I'll take what I can get.
Personally I find the beat saved with the kit is there to show what it sounds like since beat editing is so nice. If I really like a pattern then I can save the MIDI item to my MIDI library. I prepend the name with XO_ so I know what drum note name map to load in the future. This is really good for XO's groove generation and you can apply it to other MIDI-triggered drum machines, try it on acoustic kits like Addictive Drums!
I've already played around with the exported MIDI files quite a bit. As I noted above, I couldn't get them to play consistently on AD kits, which surprised me since XLN makes XO and AD. They all required a bit of tweaking. However, interestingly, all MIDI files thus far played perfect on NI's Studio Drummer (and the related 60's/70's/80's/etc. kits).

I also tried out the kits in Sampletank 4 (included and premium kits), and they needed tweaking as well. I then tried out the kits in Halion 6 and found that, generally speaking, the kits in the BEATBOX instrument (there are a lot of them) generally sounded pretty good. Other Halion 6 kits not in the Beatbox instrument were kind of hit and miss.

Haven't tried out the Steven Slate [SSD] kits yet, but I'm hopeful there as they are generally compatible with NI's Studio Drummer MIDI files. Also have not yet tried out the FXpansion kits from Geist 2 and BFD.

But frankly, as long as I have one or two reliable acoustic kits that play along well (Studio Drummer) I'm good. It's a nice counter to some of the crazier kits that XO can spit out. :tu:
Berfab
So many plugins, so little time...

yellowmix
KVRAF
1563 posts since 11 Aug, 2012 from omfr morf form romf frmo

Re: Can't stop playing with XLN's XO...Is it just me?

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:32 pm

BERFAB wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:34 am
I've already played around with the exported MIDI files quite a bit. As I noted above, I couldn't get them to play consistently on AD kits, which surprised me since XLN makes XO and AD. They all required a bit of tweaking. However, interestingly, all MIDI files thus far played perfect on NI's Studio Drummer (and the related 60's/70's/80's/etc. kits).
Yeah, they don't use the same drum map. XO is geared toward an MPC type workflow where the pads are sequential which is why it maps to Maschine, Battery, and Geist perfectly. AD has to cram a lot more instruments and articulations into its map.

For AD Kick and Snare should line up, Kick 2 has nowhere to go in AD's map most of the time (depends on kit), Closed Hihat needs to be moved up 8 semitones to 48, Open hihat 18 semitones to 59. Clap depends on where the AD kit has the clap equivalent, same with Flexi. You could create an XO keymap in AD2 if you go to ? menu > Map Window. I've attached one to this comment, with Clap going to Flexi 1 (where many kits put a clap if one exists) and Kick 2 going to Tom 1.

Studio Drummer's Session full kit keymap actually isn't perfect either. Kick and Snare line up, but Kick2 has nowhere to go so it goes to "Snare Sides". Clap is assigned to Snare Rim.

This is a common problem with MIDI drum loops. If you purchase something like Groove Monkey loops they have a utility that does the conversions for GM/AD/SD/EZD/etc. XO's is nonstandard so we have to make the keymaps for now. Which is why XO being able to export to at least AD maps would be nice.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

highkoo
KVRAF
4102 posts since 26 Jun, 2004

Re: Can't stop playing with XLN's XO...Is it just me?

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 3:15 pm

pepelogu wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 12:12 am
Agreed, it is amazing. Almost a gamechanger for beatmaking.
Ya, XO is the biggest thing in years for me. :)

Atlas was the precursor.
It is great, but XO is another level for sure.
It honestly is that 'related kit' function tab in the sequencer that is the cherry on top of the whole package, for me.

Ploki wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:36 am
Echoes in the Attic wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:24 am
Here's another thought - A much more useful approach for me would be to have something like this for single drum slot. Manuy people, myself included, use drum machine tools that can load VSTs into a drum slot. So a simple version of this, without any sequencing stuff, and with the ability to layer a few samples, modulating the different sample settings by velocity or automation, that would be very useful. And perhaps this can used that way? I guess all you'd need to be able to do is to set the different samples to trigger from the same note. If you could set velocity filters then that could actually give you multiple velocity hits.

I'd love to try, but I can't. Because time limited demos are awesome.

Is this possible? And is it light enough on resources that you could actually load many instances to make a kit?
you're really describing sample magic stacker. :D
Woah, I didnt think anyone actually used Stacker.
I used to use that thing for one reason- layered snares with independent sample start drift automation. ha.
I think FL can do that on its own now though.

I think XO should just be able to load stacks of samples in the slots, eventually. But I built a template in FL with midi outs to XO so I can pretty much still sequence in FL like usual. It was the limited patterns in XO that initially made me do it, but its overall not as clunky a way to use it and it makes it pretty easy to work with sample layering right in the FL step sequencer.
ImageImageImageImage

JiggSaw
KVRist
87 posts since 28 Jun, 2004

Re: Can't stop playing with XLN's XO...Is it just me?

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:48 pm

XO is my favorite purchase of 2019. But I'll repeat what I've said previously... being limited to two 1 bar patterns irks me.

User avatar
BONES
GRRRRRRR!
9557 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: Can't stop playing with XLN's XO...Is it just me?

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:19 pm

BERFAB wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:40 pm
I just took advantage of the sale this weekend
What sale? How much was it? It's full price today, from what I can see. I remember when it came out, I thought it looked pretty cool but it was way more than I was willing to pay. Even 30% off wouldn't cut it. They'd need to drop the "1" off the price before I'd be tempted.
NOVAkILL 4.0 : Dell G7 17 (Core i7, 8GB RAM, Win10), UR44C, Cubase, DUNE, Thorn, TRK-01, Equator, Hive, Substance, Arcsyn, Aparillo, Phase Plant, Pigments, Trueno, Analog Keys, MicroMonsta, Uno, Skulpt, Craft 2.

rlared
KVRian
605 posts since 1 Aug, 2016

Re: Can't stop playing with XLN's XO...Is it just me?

Post Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:35 pm

JiggSaw wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:48 pm
XO is my favorite purchase of 2019. But I'll repeat what I've said previously... being limited to two 1 bar patterns irks me.
Agreed, hope they make more of a song arranger function in future updates.

Ploki
KVRAF
1762 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Re: Can't stop playing with XLN's XO...Is it just me?

Post Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:28 am

BONES wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 6:19 pm
BERFAB wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 10:40 pm
I just took advantage of the sale this weekend
What sale? How much was it? It's full price today, from what I can see. I remember when it came out, I thought it looked pretty cool but it was way more than I was willing to pay. Even 30% off wouldn't cut it. They'd need to drop the "1" off the price before I'd be tempted.
it was around 30%, the 1 didn't drop, and i'm with ya here. :)

User avatar
BONES
GRRRRRRR!
9557 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: Can't stop playing with XLN's XO...Is it just me?

Post Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:40 am

Yeah, it sounds a bit weird but drums aren't something I worry too much about, they are kind of an afterthought for me when I'm working.
NOVAkILL 4.0 : Dell G7 17 (Core i7, 8GB RAM, Win10), UR44C, Cubase, DUNE, Thorn, TRK-01, Equator, Hive, Substance, Arcsyn, Aparillo, Phase Plant, Pigments, Trueno, Analog Keys, MicroMonsta, Uno, Skulpt, Craft 2.

User avatar
inkwarp
KVRian
799 posts since 16 Jan, 2012 from UK

Re: Can't stop playing with XLN's XO...Is it just me?

Post Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:51 am

JiggSaw wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:48 pm
XO is my favorite purchase of 2019. But I'll repeat what I've said previously... being limited to two 1 bar patterns irks me.
+1 on this.
major limitation for an otherwise great plugin...

BERFAB
KVRAF
6238 posts since 25 Mar, 2004

Re: Can't stop playing with XLN's XO...Is it just me?

Post Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:48 am

yellowmix wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 2:32 pm
BERFAB wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 11:34 am
I've already played around with the exported MIDI files quite a bit. As I noted above, I couldn't get them to play consistently on AD kits, which surprised me since XLN makes XO and AD. They all required a bit of tweaking. However, interestingly, all MIDI files thus far played perfect on NI's Studio Drummer (and the related 60's/70's/80's/etc. kits).
Yeah, they don't use the same drum map. XO is geared toward an MPC type workflow where the pads are sequential which is why it maps to Maschine, Battery, and Geist perfectly. AD has to cram a lot more instruments and articulations into its map.

For AD Kick and Snare should line up, Kick 2 has nowhere to go in AD's map most of the time (depends on kit), Closed Hihat needs to be moved up 8 semitones to 48, Open hihat 18 semitones to 59. Clap depends on where the AD kit has the clap equivalent, same with Flexi. You could create an XO keymap in AD2 if you go to ? menu > Map Window. I've attached one to this comment, with Clap going to Flexi 1 (where many kits put a clap if one exists) and Kick 2 going to Tom 1.

Studio Drummer's Session full kit keymap actually isn't perfect either. Kick and Snare line up, but Kick2 has nowhere to go so it goes to "Snare Sides". Clap is assigned to Snare Rim.

This is a common problem with MIDI drum loops. If you purchase something like Groove Monkey loops they have a utility that does the conversions for GM/AD/SD/EZD/etc. XO's is nonstandard so we have to make the keymaps for now. Which is why XO being able to export to at least AD maps would be nice.
First of all, thank you for this.

Regarding Studio Drummer's keymap, I think it's actually a very good compromise. If you gave a live drummer on an acoustic kit an MPC chart to mimic, I think the kick 2 and clap assignments are good choices that keep the groove going without getting in the way of the live drummer feel. So far, at least, every MIDI file from XO that I throw at it gives me a very good live drummer groove that stands on its own, or can back up the XO beat. Very happy with that actually.

On that same topic, I also spent some time last night auditioning the Steven Slate Drums with XO midi files. I had forgotten that SSD has a very convenient MIDI file converter built into it's software. [Why can't EVERYONE do this!?] And one of the conversions is to the NI protocol for Studio Drummer. The Slate drums have very deep editing tools. So deep, in fact, that there's very little in external processing required to get them to sit right in the mix. And the full SSD program comes with a a ton of great sounding acoustic kit presets for just about any genre. Bottom line: to my ear, the SSD kits sound even better than Studio Drummer with the XO MIDI files, right out of the gate.

I also started saving my XO kits as Battery 4 kits. Here's what I do: First, load the processed (rendered) XO hits (there are always 8 of them) in the first 8 Battery cells starting at C1. These play back the XO MIDI files perfectly. But I'm not done. In the same Battery kit, I will assign the rendered stems to the white keys only, starting at C3 [D3, E3, F3, etc.]. Finally, I will assign the fully rendered beat wav file to C2, so I have a record of what the original sounds like. Perfecto!

Note however, two things I have questions on:
1. I'm loading all the rendered hits and stems manually. When I try dragging the fully rendered kit pack or stem pack, it only loads the Kick 1 file into the first Battery cell. Is there a Battery setting I'm missing that will allow this to automatically load everything at once?
2. Also, for some reason I can't get the stems to stop playing when I release the key that triggers them. I have "latch" off, and I have the settings set to "stop playing when key released" (or whatever that setting is), but the entire sample still plays to the end even when I release the key early. I have a number of REX2 loop sets that I've set up in Battery that release when I release the key, but I can't for the life of me remember how I managed to do that. What am I missing please?

Thanks for the assist!
Cheers
-B
Berfab
So many plugins, so little time...

BERFAB
KVRAF
6238 posts since 25 Mar, 2004

Re: Can't stop playing with XLN's XO...Is it just me?

Post Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:53 am

inkwarp wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 1:51 am
JiggSaw wrote:
Tue Feb 18, 2020 5:48 pm
XO is my favorite purchase of 2019. But I'll repeat what I've said previously... being limited to two 1 bar patterns irks me.
+1 on this.
major limitation for an otherwise great plugin...
I do agree with this. However, XO can spit out unlimited wav or MIDI variations directly to your DAW, giving you more than enough to work with there. Granted, it would be nice to be able to do this all in XO. Its sequencer is one of the most intuitive and easy to use. Ditto the sample editing side.
Berfab
So many plugins, so little time...

mxbf
KVRist
139 posts since 30 Mar, 2019

Re: Can't stop playing with XLN's XO...Is it just me?

Post Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:57 am

it strikes me as WILDLY overpriced.

BERFAB
KVRAF
6238 posts since 25 Mar, 2004

Re: Can't stop playing with XLN's XO...Is it just me?

Post Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:07 am

mxbf wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:57 am
it strikes me as WILDLY overpriced.
I thought so too, at first. Getting the 30% discount helped.
Since getting it though, I can't recall another plug giving me this much pleasure. Tons of fun to use, completely reliable and intuitive. At a minimum, I finally feel like I have an organized home for all those one-shots on my hard drive [closing in on 100K]. The AI features are pretty whiz-bang, and put to very good creative use.
Berfab
So many plugins, so little time...

mxbf
KVRist
139 posts since 30 Mar, 2019

Re: Can't stop playing with XLN's XO...Is it just me?

Post Wed Feb 19, 2020 9:05 am

hmm. ill check it out next time its on sale if its cheaper. it sounds kind of cool

Return to “Instruments”