Are MPE Controllers a fad ?
-
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2350 posts since 28 Mar, 2007
As I am reading more about these controllers and watching reviews it is starting to seem that the main possible weakness is that they are tied to special software.
A backward compatible controller that could add expression to any old hardware and all known VSTs would obviously be the real winner here.
The only way that I could see that happening would be through some form of super fast resampling.
An output from a synth would be fed into the controller, sampled, have expression added, and chucked back out in milliseconds. Probably not possible yet, but maybe in the future with midi 2 ?
A backward compatible controller that could add expression to any old hardware and all known VSTs would obviously be the real winner here.
The only way that I could see that happening would be through some form of super fast resampling.
An output from a synth would be fed into the controller, sampled, have expression added, and chucked back out in milliseconds. Probably not possible yet, but maybe in the future with midi 2 ?
- KVRAF
- 2258 posts since 10 Jul, 2008 from Orbit SW US
I don’t even have an mpe controller yet and i an fairly sure it is not a fad but rather a serious advance in music technology that will catch on. If it’s a new piece of software, the “weakness” is the software. Kinda like if a synth came out in the 90-now and didn’t have midi.
gadgets an gizmos..make noise https://soundcloud.com/crystalawareness Restocked: 3/24
old stuff http://ww.dancingbearaudioresearch.com/
if this post is edited -it was for punctuation, grammar, or to make it coherent (or make me seem coherent).
old stuff http://ww.dancingbearaudioresearch.com/
if this post is edited -it was for punctuation, grammar, or to make it coherent (or make me seem coherent).
- KVRAF
- 4590 posts since 7 Jun, 2012 from Warsaw
This. I want a controller to work with my favourite synths that I already use, not some new synth I wouldn't care about otherwise. Stuff like Serum or Loom with extra dimensions of control would be a dream.As I am reading more about these controllers and watching reviews it is starting to seem that the main possible weakness is that they are tied to special software.
Blog ------------- YouTube channel
Tricky-Loops wrote: (...)someone like Armin van Buuren who claims to make a track in half an hour and all his songs sound somewhat boring(...)
Tricky-Loops wrote: (...)someone like Armin van Buuren who claims to make a track in half an hour and all his songs sound somewhat boring(...)
-
Echoes in the Attic Echoes in the Attic https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=180417
- KVRAF
- 11031 posts since 12 May, 2008
MPE works with tons of synths now. Existing synths are adding it all the time. Even your example, Serum, has been MPE compatible for some time. In the past few months alone some examples of synths that I personally have that went mpe are the TAL synths, Icarus 2, Pigments 2.DJ Warmonger wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:14 pmThis. I want a controller to work with my favourite synths that I already use, not some new synth I wouldn't care about otherwise. Stuff like Serum or Loom with extra dimensions of control would be a dream.As I am reading more about these controllers and watching reviews it is starting to seem that the main possible weakness is that they are tied to special software.
There's plenty more of course, not to mention DAWs who are fully compatible with all their instruments like Logic, Cubase, Bitwig, Reaper, Tracktion and probably others I'm not thinking of.
- KVRAF
- 35249 posts since 14 Sep, 2002 from In teh net
MPE is closer to what keyboard players have wanted for a good long time from midi based keyboards. ie something that enables greater range and subtlety of expression at ones' fingertips.
- KVRAF
- 4590 posts since 7 Jun, 2012 from Warsaw
My bad, indeed it is.Even your example, Serum, has been MPE compatible for some time.
But it's the only synth I own that actually does that :v
Here's one list: https://support.roli.com/support/soluti ... nstruments
Blog ------------- YouTube channel
Tricky-Loops wrote: (...)someone like Armin van Buuren who claims to make a track in half an hour and all his songs sound somewhat boring(...)
Tricky-Loops wrote: (...)someone like Armin van Buuren who claims to make a track in half an hour and all his songs sound somewhat boring(...)
- KVRAF
- 6113 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America
I sure hope it’s not just a fad. I need this stuff to become standard, common... and, most specifically, *affordable*!
- dysamoria.com
my music @ SoundCloud
my music @ SoundCloud
-
- KVRAF
- 5619 posts since 23 Mar, 2006 from pendeLondonmonium
Software is no longer the problem. Today we have access to such a huge variety of soft-instruments that any perceived lack of plugins shouldn't concern anyone. If you are serious about getting into MPE, spending time developing the chops to really be able to play, then spending a few dollars more on a compatible synth shouldn't be a problem. Should it?
I was developing dimensional sounds in 2012 with no suitable software at all. There was the Haken Eagan Matrix synth engine but it wasn't a plugin, it only worked with the Continuum.
In those days it took a lot of effort to make any dimensional, expressive sound. For example, to make such a sound in Kontakt, took a huge amount of time, perseverance, and a lot of swearing. I will spare you the details (it's not just about loading a preset multiple times....). Omnisphere was easier.
So I'd say, be happy! We have so many options today, from VA, Wavetable, Hybrids, Granular, etc. Even if you were to only use Serum, you will have so much to explore....
I was developing dimensional sounds in 2012 with no suitable software at all. There was the Haken Eagan Matrix synth engine but it wasn't a plugin, it only worked with the Continuum.
In those days it took a lot of effort to make any dimensional, expressive sound. For example, to make such a sound in Kontakt, took a huge amount of time, perseverance, and a lot of swearing. I will spare you the details (it's not just about loading a preset multiple times....). Omnisphere was easier.
So I'd say, be happy! We have so many options today, from VA, Wavetable, Hybrids, Granular, etc. Even if you were to only use Serum, you will have so much to explore....
-
- KVRAF
- 5619 posts since 23 Mar, 2006 from pendeLondonmonium
Availability is no longer such an issue, what can be described as an issue, is the actual implementation of MPE in various synths. Basically, at its core, an MPE sound needs some way of managing expression. A way to fine tune how modulation behaves on all the dimensions (on your chosen MPE controller). So to do that we need 'expression curves' that allow us to edit the expression envelope to be exponential, logarithmic, some hybrid shape...This is essential if we want to have a successful, playable sound. So, in this context, many synths make it difficult by not making it explicit how to edit such curves (if available at all).
My personal wish is for MPE synths to employ a new 'MPE expression mod page' where all 5 dimensions (5 = as currently we have five available). This page would have all 5 dimensions presented in one view, each dimension with its own expression curve. This is what Equator has, and it really makes assigning and managing of expression so easy. This is lacking in many synths, with no other synth actually presenting 5 Dimensions in such a clear way.
So, I'd say that now is the time for MPE synths to refine their MPE implementation and start providing an easier, more explicit way of assigning/editing those 5 dimensions.
My personal wish is for MPE synths to employ a new 'MPE expression mod page' where all 5 dimensions (5 = as currently we have five available). This page would have all 5 dimensions presented in one view, each dimension with its own expression curve. This is what Equator has, and it really makes assigning and managing of expression so easy. This is lacking in many synths, with no other synth actually presenting 5 Dimensions in such a clear way.
So, I'd say that now is the time for MPE synths to refine their MPE implementation and start providing an easier, more explicit way of assigning/editing those 5 dimensions.
-
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2350 posts since 28 Mar, 2007
As with so much stuff in life questions of priority need to be answered to address that question.
If someone is single, performs live, has a good income, and musicmaking is more than a hobby, then ,no, spending a few dollars more is not a problem.
But many fall into the catergory of in a partnership with kids, a car to repair, and a house to maintain, and its a hobby that gets some love when time and money allow.
For the former market mentioned price is no object.
For the latter market the product will need to go mainstream and be inbuilt into all new synths and controllers, even new workstations, and come down to an affordable price level.
Actually, workstations as used for live touring backing bands would really benefit from a workstation that can add realism to accoustic sounds.
-
Echoes in the Attic Echoes in the Attic https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=180417
- KVRAF
- 11031 posts since 12 May, 2008
Or spend nothing and download Surge which has a great MPE implementation.
For example, to make such a sound in Kontakt, took a huge amount of time, perseverance, and a lot of swearing.
Still does, doesn't it?
My favorite mpe compatible sampler would have to be the Bitwig sampler these days. I'd love nothing more than if Kontakt were to go MPE compatible but I don't have anywhere near enough faith in NI to do something so forward thinking.... errr present thinking... as that.
-
Echoes in the Attic Echoes in the Attic https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=180417
- KVRAF
- 11031 posts since 12 May, 2008
It's built-in to Logic, Cubase, Bitwig, Reaper, Tracktion at least. With their built-in instruments. You can download a free powerful as heck synth, Surge to use mpe with. And there are several budget friendly mpe synths as well. That all happened in about 5 years give years, give or take. Is there really that much farther to go?dellboy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2020 2:05 pmAs with so much stuff in life questions of priority need to be answered to address that question.
If someone is single, performs live, has a good income, and musicmaking is more than a hobby, then ,no, spending a few dollars more is not a problem.
But many fall into the catergory of in a partnership with kids, a car to repair, and a house to maintain, and its a hobby that gets some love when time and money allow.
For the former market mentioned price is no object.
For the latter market the product will need to go mainstream and be inbuilt into all new synths and controllers, even new workstations, and come down to an affordable price level.
-
- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 2350 posts since 28 Mar, 2007
Echoes in the Attic wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2020 2:11 pm
It's built-in to Logic, Cubase, Bitwig, Reaper, Tracktion at least. With their built-in instruments. You can download a free powerful as heck synth, Surge to use mpe with. And there are several budget friendly mpe synths as well. That all happened in about 5 years give years, give or take. Is there really that much farther to go?
I own Cubase Pro 10 and Tracktion Waveform 10 so I am already good to go.
All I need now is an MPE compatible 88 keyboard controller at an affordable price and I am away.
Looks like I have a long wait.
Oh well, I have made music with the stuff I already have for 30 years so another ten years or so is bearable.
Providing I am still here
-
Echoes in the Attic Echoes in the Attic https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=180417
- KVRAF
- 11031 posts since 12 May, 2008
Do you really need an mpe compatible 88 key controller? I have an NI S88 mkII but I like but I'm quite happy with the four octaves of the Rise for mpe sounds. I don't use the Rise for traditional pianos or any instruments with that much of a range.dellboy wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2020 2:35 pmEchoes in the Attic wrote: ↑Thu Feb 20, 2020 2:11 pm
It's built-in to Logic, Cubase, Bitwig, Reaper, Tracktion at least. With their built-in instruments. You can download a free powerful as heck synth, Surge to use mpe with. And there are several budget friendly mpe synths as well. That all happened in about 5 years give years, give or take. Is there really that much farther to go?
I own Cubase Pro 10 and Tracktion Waveform 10 so I am already good to go.
All I need now is an MPE compatible 88 keyboard controller at an affordable price and I am away.
Looks like I have a long wait.
Oh well, I have made music with the stuff I already have for 30 years so another ten years or so is bearable.
Providing I am still here
-
- KVRAF
- 5619 posts since 23 Mar, 2006 from pendeLondonmonium
Exactly, keep your excising 88-keyboard and simply add a suitable MPE controller. This is what I use, a master midi keyboard and several MPE controllers.