Are MPE Controllers a fad ?

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lastmessiah
KVRist
110 posts since 23 Aug, 2017

Post Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:18 am

Tj Shredder wrote:
Sat Feb 22, 2020 11:49 pm
chk071 wrote:
Fri Feb 21, 2020 5:56 am
Yes, they are a fad. IMO. YMMV. Don't kill me. Please.
For me its obvious, as soon I had my hands on an expressive controller, keyboards are of almost zero interest...
Yes, exactly. Even as a mere note input device, a keyboard is woefully inadequate for controlling a synth. And if you want to "play" a synth rather than program and trigger sequences, a keyboard is a non-starter for anything but piano and keys patches. And don't get me started on those laughable mod and pitch wheels.

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Tj Shredder
KVRAF
3952 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Re: Are MPE Controllers a fad ?

Post Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:26 am

Oh wheels are fine, but not for pitch or modulation...
The first thing I need to get rid of in almost all preset patches of any synth is this useless vibrato. I can play a real vibrato different on every note...

tapper mike
KVRAF
5310 posts since 20 Jan, 2008

Re: Are MPE Controllers a fad ?

Post Mon Feb 24, 2020 11:32 am

Yeah, no, maybe.

I like my joystick on my Korg Krome. Sometimes I want to apply bend/modulation to all notes equally. There is so much more I'd want to add to the linnstrument. Fader touchstrips X,Y control surfaces. Buttons for easy switching. And another 8 rows. (yes seriously)

I'm done with itb I'd rather have it all on an arranger/workstation/rompler like Kronos which is why I have Krome. The only pia is setting up same instruments across multiple midi channels in krome so I can utilize mpe to it's fullest.

Practicing is just plain easier on the Linnstrument than on keys. That's not to say it isn't work. But if it was easy for everyone all the time then it's value would be diminished. Like tying shoe laces. Sure it may have been difficult as a child the first few times out but no one is going to get a standing ovation for tying a bow.

deastman
KVRAF
7361 posts since 7 Aug, 2003 from San Francisco Bay Area

Re: Are MPE Controllers a fad ?

Post Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:27 pm

I think the Osmose is the future. Eventually, I believe that traditional keyboards with additional expressive features will become commonplace. And we’ll also continue to see a growing number of less conventional controllers.

I meant to respond to an earlier comment about breath controllers having disappeared. Yamaha may not make one at the moment, but there are others. I picked up a TEControl BBC2 last year, and I find that it works extraordinarily well with physical modeling instruments. I highly recommend checking it out! And of course there are also a number of traditional wind controllers available.
Incomplete list of my gear: 1/8" audio input jack.

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Jace-BeOS
KVRAF
5839 posts since 7 Jan, 2005 from Corporate States of America

Re: Are MPE Controllers a fad ?

Post Mon Feb 24, 2020 4:36 pm

Tj Shredder wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:26 am
Oh wheels are fine, but not for pitch or modulation...
The first thing I need to get rid of in almost all preset patches of any synth is this useless vibrato. I can play a real vibrato different on every note...
Yeah, when it’s synth modulation, it’s always painfully uniform and too much. I also hate when vibrato is “baked into” sample sets (like string instruments; I spent ages looking for a solo cello sample set without vibrato).
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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
9555 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: Are MPE Controllers a fad ?

Post Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:38 pm

ehdyn wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 5:15 am
I've got a seaboard here and it's ok.. fun to noodle around on sometimes. Better for sound design stuff than actual performance.. hard to imagine someone actually using it in a live setting with any kind of predictability.
That's just a matter of set-up. My Seaboard Block is the only controller I use and it's fine (and I'm a shit player).
lastmessiah wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:18 am
Yes, exactly. Even as a mere note input device, a keyboard is woefully inadequate for controlling a synth.
No it isn't and that's an absurd thig to say, given that every piece of electronic music any one of us here likes has almost certainly been played on a piano style keyboard.
And don't get me started on those laughable mod and pitch wheels.
Proof positive that you have no idea what you're talking about. Just listen to what Billy Curry can do on an ARP Odyssey, which doesn't even have a proper mod wheel -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mW9ImnTL2jk

If that doesn't convince you, find an Elektron Analog Four to play because the Mod Wheel stuff programmed into a lot of those presets will knock your socks off.

As to the original question, it seems unlikely to me. We've had polyphonic after-touch since the CS-80 in 1976 but it is still a fairly uncommon feature, 44 years later. I think there will always be a market but, as much as I love my Seaboard Block, I can't see it ever being more than a niche.
NOVAkILL 4.0 : Dell G7 17 (Core i7, 8GB RAM, Win10), UR44C, Cubase, DUNE, Thorn, TRK-01, Equator, Hive, Substance, Arcsyn, Aparillo, Phase Plant, Pigments, Trueno, Analog Keys, MicroMonsta, Uno, Skulpt, Craft 2.

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vurt
addled muppet weed
61389 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass

Re: Are MPE Controllers a fad ?

Post Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:54 pm

BONES wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:38 pm


No it isn't and that's an absurd thig to say, given that every piece of electronic music any one of us here likes has almost certainly been played on a piano style keyboard.
except the stuff that isnt of course.
sequencers dont necessarily conform to a keyboard arrangement. some do, my crazy8 for example is laid out as an octave of a standard keyboard.
but marbles/rene and others not so much.

but of course it was still an absurd thing to say, a great deal of great music has been written with synths using standard keyboards.

lastmessiah
KVRist
110 posts since 23 Aug, 2017

Re: Are MPE Controllers a fad ?

Post Tue Feb 25, 2020 8:15 am

BONES wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:38 pm
No it isn't and that's an absurd thig to say, given that every piece of electronic music any one of us here likes has almost certainly been played on a piano style keyboard.
:-?

I mean, this has to be a joke...

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BONES
GRRRRRRR!
9555 posts since 14 Jun, 2001 from Somewhere else, on principle

Re: Are MPE Controllers a fad ?

Post Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:00 pm

Why does it, are you too stupid to wrap your head around the concept? I don't think Vince Clark had access to an MPE controller when Depeche Mode made Just Can't Get Enough, or when Yazoo recorded Only You. Jaz Coleman didn't need MPE to record any of the synth lines on any Killing Joke album, either. Then there is everything in between, also made without the use of MPE enabled anything.
NOVAkILL 4.0 : Dell G7 17 (Core i7, 8GB RAM, Win10), UR44C, Cubase, DUNE, Thorn, TRK-01, Equator, Hive, Substance, Arcsyn, Aparillo, Phase Plant, Pigments, Trueno, Analog Keys, MicroMonsta, Uno, Skulpt, Craft 2.

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whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
27994 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Re: Are MPE Controllers a fad ?

Post Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:43 am

BONES wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:00 pm
Why does it, are you too stupid to wrap your head around the concept? I don't think Vince Clark had access to an MPE controller when Depeche Mode made Just Can't Get Enough, or when Yazoo recorded Only You. Jaz Coleman didn't need MPE to record any of the synth lines on any Killing Joke album, either. Then there is everything in between, also made without the use of MPE enabled anything.
That's a false dichotomy. Lots of electronic music wasnt written with keyboards even when there was no MPE. Plenty of people, including Vince Clark, used sequencers, not keyboards to write electronic music. Clark frequently says he started composing on sequencers because that meant he could write stuff he couldnt actually play.
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whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
27994 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Re: Are MPE Controllers a fad ?

Post Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:17 am

dellboy wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 3:28 am
They are great and bring a lot of expression to sound, but will they eventually just end up at the back of a drawer or cupboard and not being used much ?

yes
no
maybe.
For different people. Now that MIDI 2.0 is a genuine thing, the 'stopgap' of MPE devices is likely to alter, and possibly disappear, but I dont think for a second that expressive controllers will. And I dont think the kind of capability that MPE offers will. Its just that, in the meantime, MPE is a fugly hack, albeit one that works.

OTOH, Im not convinced that they'll ever be much more than a niche unless they're as cheap as regular controllers. It does kinda surprise me how much investment capital Roli have raised on what's basically a small- niche technology.
"The bearer of this signature is a genuine and authorised pope."

dellboy
KVRian
1200 posts since 28 Mar, 2007

Re: Are MPE Controllers a fad ?

Post Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:18 am

whyterabbyt wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:43 am


That's a false dichotomy. Lots of electronic music wasnt written with keyboards even when there was no MPE. Plenty of people, including Vince Clark, used sequencers, not keyboards to write electronic music. Clark frequently says he started composing on sequencers because that meant he could write stuff he couldnt actually play.
But they did originally play live on mono synths no ?

“In the early days, we didn’t even have any way of linking the gear together or sequencing it, so everything had to be played live." Vince Clark, Music Radar July 09, 2018

https://www.musicradar.com/news/vince-c ... -the-synth

And their early videos show them pretending to play live (although the synths are not actually plugged in).

Ploki
KVRAF
1683 posts since 17 Dec, 2009

Re: Are MPE Controllers a fad ?

Post Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:38 am

BONES wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:00 pm
Why does it, are you too stupid to wrap your head around the concept? I don't think Vince Clark had access to an MPE controller when Depeche Mode made Just Can't Get Enough, or when Yazoo recorded Only You. Jaz Coleman didn't need MPE to record any of the synth lines on any Killing Joke album, either. Then there is everything in between, also made without the use of MPE enabled anything.
its f**king 2020, why are you citing music from 1980? That's 40 years ago.
Its the same argument as "hurr durr who needs synths beatles only had guitars" or something like that

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whyterabbyt
Beware the Quoth
27994 posts since 4 Sep, 2001 from R'lyeh Oceanic Amusement Park and Funfair

Re: Are MPE Controllers a fad ?

Post Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:40 am

dellboy wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 3:18 am
whyterabbyt wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:43 am


That's a false dichotomy. Lots of electronic music wasnt written with keyboards even when there was no MPE. Plenty of people, including Vince Clark, used sequencers, not keyboards to write electronic music. Clark frequently says he started composing on sequencers because that meant he could write stuff he couldnt actually play.
But they did originally play live on mono synths no ?
Not seeing how that's relevant to what I said.

BONES specifically claimed that every piece of music electronic music everyone here liked was 'almost certainly' played on a piano-style keyboards. Notwithstanding BONES' assumption he can speak for everyone here in terms of what folk like, it wont have been, though, because so much of it will have been written on sequencers, as vurt already pointed out.

Some of those sequencers were analogue sequencers, some of them were things like the (non-MIDI, CV/gate) MC-4 Vince Clark used up till the 2000's, some were DAWs, and some were other things again...

Image

What DM did prior to Clarke using a sequencer for all his subsequent writing doesnt really change the point.
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DJ Warmonger
KVRAF
3677 posts since 7 Jun, 2012 from Warsaw

Re: Are MPE Controllers a fad ?

Post Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:23 am

its f**king 2020, why are you citing music from 1980? That's 40 years ago.
Its the same argument as "hurr durr who needs synths beatles only had guitars" or something like that
:tu:

The point of this thread is "Do MPE controller have future", not "How did people make music 20, 50 or 200 years ago" :roll: Some grandpas can't notice that things are changing over time.
http://djwarmonger.wordpress.com/
Tricky-Loops wrote: (...)someone like Armin van Buuren who claims to make a track in half an hour and all his songs sound somewhat boring(...)

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