Full Bucket Music releases Tricent mk III for Mac & Win VST & AU

VST, AU, AAX, etc. plug-in Virtual Instruments discussion
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david.beholder
KVRAF
1686 posts since 13 Sep, 2007

Post Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:07 pm

Halonmusic wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:56 pm
There are dedicated synths for drums. They are called ... Drumsynths. Oh and ever heard of samples?
Telling others how to use their synths in 2020. Are you from Elektron?
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Halonmusic
KVRAF
3433 posts since 13 Nov, 2015 from Norway

Re: Full Bucket Music releases Tricent mk III for Mac & Win VST & AU

Post Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:58 pm

david.beholder wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 1:07 pm
Halonmusic wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:56 pm
There are dedicated synths for drums. They are called ... Drumsynths. Oh and ever heard of samples?
Telling others how to use their synths in 2020. Are you from Elektron?
No.
Don't be a Sheep. :borg: | Opinions matters :evil:

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
19501 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: Full Bucket Music releases Tricent mk III for Mac & Win VST & AU

Post Tue Feb 25, 2020 3:34 pm

e-crooner wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:49 pm
Does aliasing matter with low and short notes such as kick drums?
If you do it with a self-oscillating filter, it does matter.

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layzer
KVRAF
6727 posts since 11 Jun, 2006

Re: Full Bucket Music releases Tricent mk III for Mac & Win VST & AU

Post Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:03 pm

in a time where its "dope" for sounds to be dirty and obnoxious, i dont see where a synth having aliasing effects at extreme high frequencies even matters. i'll take low CPU usage over pristine, "cleaner sound".
alising or not, i like the synth and the sounds it makes
even if it is not a dead on emulation of the trident. :tu:
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Local Man
KVRian
717 posts since 31 May, 2017

Re: Full Bucket Music releases Tricent mk III for Mac & Win VST & AU

Post Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:17 pm

gentleclockdivider wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:25 am
...
Are these plugins so loved just because they are free ?
...
No. It's because they sound good in most musical situations.
I personally have never found a good use for full resonance filter sweeps in my compositions.

I get that it is a big oversight and I think it is important to point out such flaws in the hope that they will be remedied at some point, but to me it is not fair to question the fundamental quality and usefulness of something just because it fails at the extremes.

In general Full Bucket Synths are very good in most scenarios.

someone called simon
KVRian
536 posts since 24 Jul, 2008 from a small city in a small country in the antipodes

Re: Full Bucket Music releases Tricent mk III for Mac & Win VST & AU

Post Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:58 pm

gentleclockdivider wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 2:25 am
He obviously took the time to code zdf filters (mono fury ) yet oversees such a fundamental issue
I don't mean this to be a dickhead comment...

to 'oversee' is to have responsibility for something, and make sure it's happening correctly. You might not be doing it yourself, but you'll be checking that those who are doing it, are doing it correctly.

to 'overlook', is either to miss something important you probably should have noticed, or sometimes, when you have authority over someone, to decide not to discipline them for an action that was wrong. To show lenience.

So I think you meant 'overlook' :)

You'd think the words would have the same meaning, but in fact it's nearly opposite. So using the wrong one could prove awkward sometimes :)

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EvilDragon
KVRAF
19501 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: Full Bucket Music releases Tricent mk III for Mac & Win VST & AU

Post Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:52 pm

layzer wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 5:03 pm
in a time where its "dope" for sounds to be dirty and obnoxious, i dont see where a synth having aliasing effects at extreme high frequencies even matters.
It matters because it's supposed to be an emulation of a vintage analog synth which did NOT alias. Of course it's important. It makes it not a very good emulation.

Also it's not even happening at extremely high frequencies. It's happening in more regular scenarios too. It could be a lot better, that's all.

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gentleclockdivider
KVRAF
2532 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Re: Full Bucket Music releases Tricent mk III for Mac & Win VST & AU

Post Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:33 am

I got a reply from the developer , says he's working on the filter issue .
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

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Full Bucket
KVRian
660 posts since 25 May, 2010 from Hessisch Uganda, Germany

Re: Full Bucket Music releases Tricent mk III for Mac & Win VST & AU

Post Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:34 am

Thanks everybody for your comments!

If you feel like "TL;DR" here's the short version: I'll fix it. :hihi:

If not:

As a single freeware developer I do not have the resources like the big players, so please bear with me. Anyway, I try to do my best (which might be mediocre).

Obviously the Tricent's VCF model has a flaw at high cutoff frequencies and high resonances; I'll fix that as soon as possible. It still will alias after the fix (as most of the interesting DSP models it is a non-linear model, so what do you expect?) but to a much lower degree. Moving to higher sample rates is an option.
Vortifex wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:23 pm
I don't see why people shouldn't mention issues with software just because it's free.
Totally agree. Some do it openly as in this forum, some do it per mail. The latter one guarantees that the issue gets known to the developer. In the end it helps me to improve my stuff.
murnau wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:29 am
[...]as the developer owes you exactly nothing.[...]
Hmmm, I must admit that I will not feel comfortable if folks have problems with my plugs.
e-crooner wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:50 am
I think his plugins are feature emulations most of all, they don't seem to focus on authentic sound.
I would never claim that my simulations sound like the originals, especially because I do not own (most of) the original stuff. But rest assured that I follow the schematics, check and listen to any available resource etc.
e-crooner wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:50 am
The developer probably reuses a lot of code across his plugins.
Of course I do. That's a virtue of software engineering.
Tj Shredder wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:06 am
It looks like Björn is a real Korg fanatic.
Well, I love the (often quirky) KORGs from the past where the designers tried to balance functionality and cost. The resulting instruments had surprising properties and sometimes flaws, too (see the similarities? :hihi:).

Cheers, Björn

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gentleclockdivider
KVRAF
2532 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent

Re: Full Bucket Music releases Tricent mk III for Mac & Win VST & AU

Post Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:37 am

Halonmusic wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:56 pm
gentleclockdivider wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 12:43 pm
burnt circuit wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:52 am
gentleclockdivider wrote:
Mon Feb 24, 2020 11:32 am
Lots of aliasing when resonance is maxed out
Good thing, because I never use max resonance...

I guess I'll have to stick to playing notes and making music...
Never created a kick drum with a self oscillating filter ?
Sure you're to bussy making music :lol:
There are dedicated synths for drums. They are called ... Drumsynths. Oh and ever heard of samples?
Don't know what to think of that , only using stuff for it's intended purpose sound pretty boring , I must be doing something illegal since I use my nord modular for making drumsounds + high resonance :lol:
That's the second non argument defending the resonance aliasing issue
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies

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Calenberger
KVRian
884 posts since 8 Sep, 2019 from Calenberg

Re: Full Bucket Music releases Tricent mk III for Mac & Win VST & AU

Post Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:15 am

gentleclockdivider wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:37 am
I must be doing something illegal since I use my nord modular for making drumsounds + high resonance :lol:
Reported!
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EvilDragon
KVRAF
19501 posts since 7 Jan, 2009 from Croatia

Re: Full Bucket Music releases Tricent mk III for Mac & Win VST & AU

Post Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:49 am

Full Bucket wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:34 am
Thanks everybody for your comments!
And thank you for an elaborate reply!

I have a question - are you employing oversampling at all in the filter (or elsewhere in the signal path)? I really do think that having a HQ switch that bumps up oversampling to 4x or something like that would be super-welcome. Unless it's too much work on your side...

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Tj Shredder
KVRAF
3964 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Re: Full Bucket Music releases Tricent mk III for Mac & Win VST & AU

Post Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:24 am

Full Bucket wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:34 am
Tj Shredder wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 6:06 am
It looks like Björn is a real Korg fanatic.
Well, I love the (often quirky) KORGs from the past where the designers tried to balance functionality and cost. The resulting instruments had surprising properties and sometimes flaws, too (see the similarities? :hihi:).

Cheers, Björn
Yes, and that is the reason why I still search for a Poly 800 emu. The most criticized feature, the single filter for all voices at the same time, allowed me to create some expression though the keyboard which was not velocity sensitive back then.
Set the filter retrigger off, have a slow attack time, and playing legato would create a crescendo, whereas playing staccato would stay piano...
All these technical compromises would lead to very specific ways of playing such an instrument...
In the end its just nostalgia, and creating a paraphonic synth in Bitwigs Grid for example would be so simple...

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Full Bucket
KVRian
660 posts since 25 May, 2010 from Hessisch Uganda, Germany

Re: Full Bucket Music releases Tricent mk III for Mac & Win VST & AU

Post Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:36 am

EvilDragon wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 4:49 am
I have a question - are you employing oversampling at all in the filter (or elsewhere in the signal path)? I really do think that having a HQ switch that bumps up oversampling to 4x or something like that would be super-welcome. Unless it's too much work on your side...
Yes, I do oversample (although it is not my main strategy for anti-aliasing). I already had the same idea about a "HQ" switch, however that needs some more work & elaboration. But a good point & on my worklist! :tu:
Tj Shredder wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:24 am
Yes, and that is the reason why I still search for a Poly 800 emu. The most criticized feature, the single filter for all voices at the same time, allowed me to create some expression though the keyboard which was not velocity sensitive back then.
Set the filter retrigger off, have a slow attack time, and playing legato would create a crescendo, whereas playing staccato would stay piano...
All these technical compromises would lead to very specific ways of playing such an instrument...
In the end its just nostalgia, and creating a paraphonic synth in Bitwigs Grid for example would be so simple...
Interesting! I guess you could apply this technique to the Nabla (Delta 8)), too?

Cheers, Björn

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Tj Shredder
KVRAF
3964 posts since 6 Jan, 2017 from Outer Space

Re: Full Bucket Music releases Tricent mk III for Mac & Win VST & AU

Post Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:59 am

Full Bucket wrote:
Wed Feb 26, 2020 5:36 am
Interesting! I guess you could apply this technique to the Nabla (Delta 8)), too?
I guess you could do that with any paraphonic instrument. Back then this was new for me. It was my very first own synth, soon after accompanied by a DX7. I have special memories with it. I never came across a Delta in my life, and I also never lusted for it... There are two sorts of nostalgia driven wishes for emulations. First is those I owned or had personal experience with, and second those I lusted for and could never ever afford...
Out of category 1 the Poly 800 is still missing in my collection. I still have those programming sheets...; - )
This pieces synth is the Poly 800
https://soundcloud.com/ondes-memorielle ... ynthesizer

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