NI have announced they will no longer activate discontinued products

[Matt_NI]

I'm saying we are trying to be practical here and focus on solutions...

That sounds like a positive move...

While you guys are in such a positive mood,why don't you fire most of the bean counters and the overpaid "experts" and bring back a few of the good coders and get down to what NI used to do so well in the past ?

Creating inspiring software instruments and FX

Ah you did mention that already in the thread but taking note

[Gamma-UT]

SC doesn't even work in High Sierra onwards. Not sure if it works with SIP disabled, but there's this as an issue.

Also the issue is not in the activation server(s), the issue is in the activation method itself.

I think there's a balance to be struck here. A lot of those products won't run on the newer operating systems either, with the exception of the encrypted Kontakt libraries, where there is more of an issue. But even then, if you want to access these things, at some point you take the option of having a machine on hand that only runs the old stuff and is not updated to the latest, greatest. I've got one fixed at Snow Leopard, for example.

However, on OS X at least, as far as I can tell, the activation token is simply a .plist file with a code in it under both SC and NA. On the PC, this winds up as a registry entry IIRC.

I'm having some difficulty understanding how the old method is insecure while the new one is secure. I can fully understand that for online activation, SC uses a completely insecure transmission technique.

[Russell Grand]

I'm saying we are trying to be practical here and focus on solutions...

That sounds like a positive move...

While you guys are in such a positive mood,why don't you fire most of the bean counters and the overpaid "experts" and bring back a few of the good coders and get down to what NI used to do so well in the past ?

Creating inspiring software instruments and FX

[digitalboytn]

Ah you did mention that already in the thread but taking note

It's always good to keep some things in the public arena and in the fore front of a person's mind...

Sometimes those thoughts may even express some change...

You may have have guessed that I'm not really a fan of bean counters

The're like a corporate pandemic and there's no vaccine available...

[EvilDragon]

I think there's a balance to be struck here. A lot of those products won't run on the newer operating systems either, with the exception of the encrypted Kontakt libraries, where there is more of an issue. But even then, if you want to access these things, at some point you take the option of having a machine on hand that only runs the old stuff and is not updated to the latest, greatest. I've got one fixed at Snow Leopard, for example.

However, on OS X at least, as far as I can tell, the activation token is simply a .plist file with a code in it under both SC and NA. On the PC, this winds up as a registry entry IIRC.

I'm having some difficulty understanding how the old method is insecure while the new one is secure. I can fully understand that for online activation, SC uses a completely insecure transmission technique.

It's about exactly that - online activation security. Also, before you get to the plist/registry entry, your hardware ID needs to be used to create authorization keys. Plist/reg is not an activation token - your hardware ID is.

[vurt]

Hey Everyone,

Matt here from NI CS team.

i hope ypuve got a nice relaxing holiday coming up.
you will need it after a couple of days here

i would hope it doesnt, but if it does, get heated, try to remember its not personal.

is it you i see about a free upgrade from k11 to 13?

[Gamma-UT]

It's about exactly that - online activation security. Also, before you get to the plist/registry entry, your hardware ID needs to be used to create authorization keys. Plist/reg is not an activation token - your hardware ID is.

And you'll maybe notice when I wrote about offline activation, that can be taken care of by the webpage form's local script and the server backend, avoiding the need for SC to send anything in plaintext over the interwebz. Or send anything, anywhere.

And, um, that reg entry is the token - one that doubtless gets checked against an SC-generated hardware ID on the local system.

[sprnva]

Some kind of offline activation page could work. Enter your product and machine ID and get an activation key back.

NI support helped me out a while back with activating Komplete 3 offline (as the last version of SC supported on a G4 PowerMac couldn't connect to NI) by sending me a bunch of activation codes for the various products and updates. Service Center can activate products offline using the combination of all three codes.

As some of these products require an OS that can't even run Native Access, activating a legacy product on a legacy system will have to be done through Service Center.

[imrae]

we are trying to be practical here and focus on solutions .

Here's a good one to focus on:

provide the Licensee with a key which ensures the continued use of the software independent of changes of the computer.

[Matt_NI]

Hey Everyone,

Matt here from NI CS team.

i hope ypuve got a nice relaxing holiday coming up.
you will need it after a couple of days here

i would hope it doesnt, but if it does, get heated, try to remember its not personal.

is it you i see about a free upgrade from k11 to 13?

I don't have a holiday since the whole of Europe is getting into lockdown mode but I'll should be just fine ... as long as nobody is coughing on me at least.

I think I'll add your free update to my notes as well ;D

[Gamma-UT]

Plist/reg is not an activation token - your hardware ID is.

However, what I haven't taken into account is the possibility that the hardware ID is not generated locally but has to be created by a remote server when SC first runs - that may be an issue. But if that's the case, how did offline activation ever work?

[Matt_NI]

Some kind of offline activation page could work. Enter your product and machine ID and get an activation key back.

NI support helped me out a while back with activating Komplete 3 offline (as the last version of SC supported on a G4 PowerMac couldn't connect to NI) by sending me a bunch of activation codes for the various products and updates. Service Center can activate products offline using the combination of all three codes.

As some of these products require an OS that can't even run Native Access, activating a legacy product on a legacy system will have to be done through Service Center.

Correct, we have been using that in some cases and this is definitely one route we need to assess.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

we will spend some time on workarounds.

That's encouraging. Thanks for letting us know

[bharris22]

Matt, no offense, but the software I bought that's dependent on NI came with this EULA.

Should Native Instruments for whatever reasons no longer be able to fulfill its obligations to deliver the activation key, it will provide the Licensee with a key which ensures the continued use of the software independent of changes of the computer.

Honor it. It's that simple.

As a lawyer myself, I commend NI's legal team for drafting such a clearly worded clause in the first place; they are probably now wishing they had been more opaque. I would be interested to hear what the explanation/justification would be for NI to not "provide the Licensee with a key which ensures the continued use of the software" for any software covered by this EULA language. Seems to me they are making the raw business calculation that defending a lawsuit alleging a breach of the EULA would be less expensive than either trying to maintain the Service Center or now develop offline activation methods if none existed for these products before.

[dellboy]

I have asked this question before but the FAQ on NIs site seems to contradict the answers I was given, so...............

What will happen to updates and crossgrades on May 31st if the qualifying base product is deleted by NI servers ?

At present if you sell a base product then updates and crossgrades become inactive.

Will the qualifying base product always remain in the users account even though it will not be able to be sold or activated ?

NI FAQ......

"If you registered an Update / Upgrade / Crossgrade and sell the qualifying base product, the Update / Upgrade / Crossgrade license becomes inactive - because you need the qualifying base product for the Update / Upgrade / Crossgrade in your account. For instance, if you upgraded KOMPLETE 12 to KOMPLETE 12 ULTIMATE, you cannot remove KOMPLETE 12 from your account without KOMPLETE 12 ULTIMATE becoming invalid."