NI have announced they will no longer activate discontinued products

[EvilDragon]

Of course it does, you cannot expect them to go back and manually hack over 60 products (most of which won't even install on latest Macs, for example) and stop the presses on everything else. That is not the only way to resolve this.

[Sascha Franck]

Of course it does, you cannot expect them to go back and manually hack over 60 products (most of which won't even install on latest Macs, for example) and stop the presses on everything else. That is not the only way to resolve this.

They had over a decade to deal with the issue. As easy as that.

[Matt_NI]

Yes, technically not as straight forward as one may think but there is some room for action

[WasteLand]

Of course it does, you cannot expect them to go back and manually hack over 60 products (most of which won't even install on latest Macs, for example) and stop the presses on everything else. That is not the only way to resolve this.

disclaimer: i am carefull: this is not promoting cracked software. and o well, who doesn't have a torrent program..

but is known (i am also not a holy man, ok, at this moment i am, all software legal, for years), that every NI product is cracked. or the older products, long time ago, i checked those things.
so if they can be cracked, it is easy to activate them, i mean that activation isn't necessary. camel audio, was an example i saw.
i don't know nothing how to crack software, but if a third party can do it, NI, can certainly provide access to downloads. even adobe did this, with CS2.
if it is the way do it? it means also that it will be out there, but hey it is already out there...

strange to take a position from a hackers viewpoint... it isn't, it is an example that it can be done. and it seems not to difficult. the protection systems of all software is useless, except steinberg eLicenser dongle is the exception.. (although their are rumours it can be done, but every update brings too much work. i don't know.)

EDIT: useless against cracks. it is usefull for registering, that you have control of what you install, and re-install. most managers work pretty well. iLok is only a licensing stick (i have 2 dongles... for the price of half a serum...), not a protection. o also reason seems pretty protected.

again: not promoting cracked software, on the contrary. this drives people to cracked versions...

EDIT: and i understand what you say, EvilDragon. but it isn't that difficult.. in my humble opinion, i may be wrong (i always stay open minded). and of course, 10 years old, but, let's face it; 10 years isn't old! it isn't a valid argument. LCD tv's, that aren't updated after 2 years, or smartphones.. the arguments of manufacturers aren't valid. it is software, you can give access, without support. it isn't a broken hardware piece. (and by the way the garantue that is given on "hardware" is against laws, in my country. but you have to go to a court for it. so we have laws, for consumers, and shops etc. don't respect those laws. strange example, no.)

[vurt]

Yes, technically not as straight forward as one may think but there is some room for action

good to know its at least being looked at.
thanks for the info.

[original flipper]

Hi

Surely NI have multiple archival versions of all their software - the software developer will produce the code and hand it over to NI who will add the CP, no?

What I am saying is the CP will be 'added' separately and surely the non CP versions exist - sample collections (for example) must be available or kept in archives without the CP added.

This stuff should be offered up to purchasers/owners and if it gets distributed freely then NI will just have to accept the risk - blimey, this is OLD software for goodness sake - its not likely to be in the 'crack top 20' any time soon.

[Echoes in the Attic]

Of course it does, you cannot expect them to go back and manually hack over 60 products (most of which won't even install on latest Macs, for example) and stop the presses on everything else. That is not the only way to resolve this.

But are there really 60 standalone products (not kontakt libraries) that NI owns that would need to be un-copy protected? Seems like there are much fewer to me, just a handful. Wouldn't most of these simply be third party products that are licensed to run on kontakt? As such should be able to be white listed from the NI side based on the product ID I would think. They wouldn't need individual modifications.

And a good point above - If hackers can remove copy protection, surely NI, who own the software, can do it to.

[TheMaestro]

I hope I win a Maschine mk3.

[audiot]

I don't see why this should be so difficult. Even if the original coder(s) left, you really think that other programmers at NI couldn't go in and just remove the copy protection? Obviously talking about NI's own plugins here.
And for third party kontakt instruments, that should be easy too. Can't Native Access and/or Kontakt simply white list certain products so that they will work without activation?

I honestly don't fault NI at all for not wanting to support these old products, but if a company can develop a product like Maschine or Massive X, they should be able to work out a way to remove the need for activation for some products. That is not the most complex part of the code for these things.

I'm afraid that it's not that easy. If the code has a certain level of complexety and isnt documented well, nobody wants to touch that code ... It can be really hard to read code from others, if they used meaningless names for functions and variables or names that follow their own individual logic.

But in that case it would be nice to clearly communicate this, like: "There will be no major update for Synth X ... maybe there will be a successor thats coded from the ground" ... or something like that

[WasteLand]

Hi

Surely NI have multiple archival versions of all their software - the software developer will produce the code and hand it over to NI who will add the CP, no?

What I am saying is the CP will be 'added' separately and surely the non CP versions exist - sample collections (for example) must be available or kept in archives without the CP added.

This stuff should be offered up to purchasers/owners and if it gets distributed freely then NI will just have to accept the risk - blimey, this is OLD software for goodness sake - its not likely to be in the 'crack top 20' any time soon.

i was thinking that when i wrote my reaction. the software you develop, isn't protected. it would be strange, for debugging... me thinks it comes at the end, adding a library... o well, programming is 20 years ago for me.. and never did use protection (....).
but perhaps they weren't stored. somewhere. but as i said. third parties can "unlock" it.

still the disclaimer: but it is a perfect example, that technical reasons, aren't always that technical... but perhaps i am wrong.

rebirth can still run on windows 10....... with some changes.. in the installer.. for example..
yes windows! not mac.... (not for a fight, personal choice windows or mac, or sometimes a choice made by other factors.. but legacy support in windows is better. is windows better? that is another question..)

[bharris22]

Of course it does, you cannot expect them to go back and manually hack over 60 products (most of which won't even install on latest Macs, for example) and stop the presses on everything else. That is not the only way to resolve this.

They had over a decade to deal with the issue. As easy as that.

And if the relevant language was in the EULA all this time, they should at least continue to allow authorization of these legacy products while they figure out a more permanent solution. The EULA is an agreement, after all, and it would be reasonable for any given user to say that they purchased the license (at least in part) based on the explicit representation in the EULA that if NI could no longer provide an activation key they would provide the Licensee with a key that ensured the continued use of the software.

[goldenanalog]

Yes, technically not as straight forward as one may think but there is some room for action

One solution (well: not exactly a solution, but certainly an incentive that works towards lessening the hit to us long-term NI fans lol)

Your Summer of Savings drops right about the EOS for some of your older products, right?

Make us deals that we can't refuse - maybe vouchers *in addition* to the 1/2 off that we normally pay for upgrades, etc. during the sale - is that something that you guys can manage?

[moshimoshi]

I'm saying we are trying to be practical here and focus on solutions not have our legal team debate this decision with you guys.

Ok, let's be very serious here for once.

I'll quote this from your EULA again:

Should Native Instruments for whatever reasons no longer be able to fulfill its obligations to deliver the activation key, it will provide the Licensee with a key which ensures the continued use of the software independent of changes of the computer.

And then NI comes up with this:

Is Native Instruments currently looking into any other solutions for affected customers?

Yes, in specific cases we might be able to provide at-your-own risk support for our end-of-life products. We can’t promise anything at this point and technical feasibility needs to be evaluated. We will share more information about this as soon as possible.

1) Specific cases? Are you joking?
2) You don't have to promise anything, there's no need for it.

As far as (1) goes: Your very own EULAs describe *exactly* how to deal with this event. They don't describe it for "specific cases" but for each and every single product that got handed out with this EULA. No way around it. In other words: In case someone decides to install Battery 2 in 2046 on an ancient Win XP machine, you will have to supply an activation method. Otherwise they'll sue you and win. And, let me add that: Rightly so!

As far as (2) goes: No, "technical feasibility" doesn't need to be evaluated. You had more than a decade of time to think about evaluating technical feasibilities. All too apparently, you didn't.

This right here is bang on. You can't expect users to abide by EULAs if you totally disregard them yourself! Absolutely ridiculous, this is worse than any discontinuation - I have discontinued software by other companies like fxpansion and it can still be authorised many many years later. I don't know why companies pull stunts like this. What's the motivation to use any of your stuff if it can just be cancelled arbitrarily? New computers and OS's are not everyone's cup of tea - many people prefer an older offline system which you don't have to f**k with constantly.

[Matt_NI]

Yes, technically not as straight forward as one may think but there is some room for action

One solution (well: not exactly a solution, but certainly an incentive that works towards lessening the hit to us long-term NI fans lol)

Your Summer of Savings drops right about the EOS for some of your older products, right?

Make us deals that we can't refuse - maybe vouchers *in addition* to the 1/2 off that we normally pay for upgrades, etc. during the sale - is that something that you guys can manage?

I believe that was actually part of the original idea especially with customers affected by the end of life of our own product. I would need to get more details on that but that is definitely something that was mentioned. I think for now everyone is sort of focusing on what can be done technically here and once we have a better understand of where things will go, we'll start detailing what can be done with specific deals.

[donkey tugger]

I don't know why companies pull stunts like this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planned_obsolescence