NI have announced they will no longer activate discontinued products

[wagtunes]

General observation - much of this thread is still arguing and positing things that are no longer relevant, given NI's change of stance. General prediction - this will continue.

The thread was never relevant. It is just another dev bashing thread just like the ones started against Plugin Alliance, IK Multimedia, Slate, iLok, Disco DSP and a host of other companies that are targeted for attack here for no apparent or legitimate reason.

The fact is that all titles from NI that are being discontinued have either been superseded by newer versions or have not been available for quite some time. Threads like this are an embarrassment for KVR and should be locked immediately by the mods because there are no real discussions going on in them. It is just cyberbullying.

Please make me understand just to clarify.

So I currently have, as an example, Chris Hein Violin and Cello libraries that need Kontakt 5 to run. Regardless of whether or not something comes out that's better and these libraries someday are discontinued, they are not only good enough for me but VITAL to my making the music I make.

So you're telling me that if, 10 years from now, NI decides that it will no longer allow me to authorize these libraries on a new install, that's okay? I will be FORCED to buy something else that I clearly don't need because they essentially tell me that I can't use it anymore?

In what universe is that even remotely acceptable?

You look me in the eye and tell me with a straight face that THIS is okay.

[surreal]

That's actually not accurate. For example, as soon as you login to Native Access you accept our EULA. You can find the mention on top of your login screen.
Also I'm not sure anyone here has access to EULA they agreed upon back in 2000.

Seriously, while I kind of appreciate that NI is adressing the issue ("kind of" because this could and *should* have been happening way earlier - at least *way* before pulling off this recent stunt), I'd appreciate it even more if you'd do your homework. Sorry, I don't want to sound rude or anything, but what you've just wrote is plain nonsense and won't even remotely hold any legal water.
Whatever the new EULAs look like today in Native Access is completely (!) irrelevant to older products.
And as far as access to older EULAs goes, they will pop up as soon as you install a NI product from an older installation medium. And these are the only EULAs valid for that very product, there's no way around it.

To give you a pretty blunt example: If you purchase something with a 3 year warranty, this is what you will get. It doesn't even remotely matter whether you change that to just 6 months for follow up products after one year, the original product will still have 3 years of warranty.

Besides, I absolutely don't understand why you bring up Native Access at all. I mean, the products affected are those that apparently can't be registered through Native Access.

Native Access is still activating a lot of the products we have listed. Some users do not even use Service Center at all and so I want to make it clear that this is also affecting user that are using NA today. It's important to understand that the issue is with the activation mechanisms and we are not just dropping a bunch of products working perfectly fine today.

I would really like to keep my Ni pro 53 going... how can I do that as native access does not activate it? It would have been a wiser and better move if the announcement was more along the lines of " native instruments have completely migrated native service centre to native access and ALL native products can be managed from you native access account" or "due to the changes to native service center, affected products, the products will be avaible with a offline serial in your user account" please note the further use of the legacy products is at your own risk and wont be supported further

[surreal]

That's actually not accurate. For example, as soon as you login to Native Access you accept our EULA. You can find the mention on top of your login screen.
Also I'm not sure anyone here has access to EULA they agreed upon back in 2000.

Seriously, while I kind of appreciate that NI is adressing the issue ("kind of" because this could and *should* have been happening way earlier - at least *way* before pulling off this recent stunt), I'd appreciate it even more if you'd do your homework. Sorry, I don't want to sound rude or anything, but what you've just wrote is plain nonsense and won't even remotely hold any legal water.
Whatever the new EULAs look like today in Native Access is completely (!) irrelevant to older products.
And as far as access to older EULAs goes, they will pop up as soon as you install a NI product from an older installation medium. And these are the only EULAs valid for that very product, there's no way around it.

To give you a pretty blunt example: If you purchase something with a 3 year warranty, this is what you will get. It doesn't even remotely matter whether you change that to just 6 months for follow up products after one year, the original product will still have 3 years of warranty.

Besides, I absolutely don't understand why you bring up Native Access at all. I mean, the products affected are those that apparently can't be registered through Native Access.

Native Access is still activating a lot of the products we have listed. Some users do not even use Service Center at all and so I want to make it clear that this is also affecting user that are using NA today. It's important to understand that the issue is with the activation mechanisms and we are not just dropping a bunch of products working perfectly fine today.

[Aloysius]

The end is NI

[fmr]

It’s very simple. We as customers buy our audio tools to own.

You don't ever own software. You get a license to use it. There's a difference.

Yes but this is a difference that vendors, if they are smart, should try to disguise, because that's what keep many people away from software, and leads many more back to hardware. Keeping reminding that is not a good thing for the subject in question, IMO.

[EvilDragon]

That's actually not accurate. For example, as soon as you login to Native Access you accept our EULA. You can find the mention on top of your login screen.
Also I'm not sure anyone here has access to EULA they agreed upon back in 2000.

Seriously, while I kind of appreciate that NI is adressing the issue ("kind of" because this could and *should* have been happening way earlier - at least *way* before pulling off this recent stunt), I'd appreciate it even more if you'd do your homework. Sorry, I don't want to sound rude or anything, but what you've just wrote is plain nonsense and won't even remotely hold any legal water.
Whatever the new EULAs look like today in Native Access is completely (!) irrelevant to older products.
And as far as access to older EULAs goes, they will pop up as soon as you install a NI product from an older installation medium. And these are the only EULAs valid for that very product, there's no way around it.

To give you a pretty blunt example: If you purchase something with a 3 year warranty, this is what you will get. It doesn't even remotely matter whether you change that to just 6 months for follow up products after one year, the original product will still have 3 years of warranty.

Besides, I absolutely don't understand why you bring up Native Access at all. I mean, the products affected are those that apparently can't be registered through Native Access.

Native Access is still activating a lot of the products we have listed. Some users do not even use Service Center at all and so I want to make it clear that this is also affecting user that are using NA today. It's important to understand that the issue is with the activation mechanisms and we are not just dropping a bunch of products working perfectly fine today.

I would really like to keep my Ni pro 53 going... how can I do that as native access does not activate it? It would have been a wiser and better move if the announcement was more along the lines of " native instruments have completely migrated native service centre to native access and ALL native products can be managed from you native access account" or "due to the changes to native service center, affected products, the products will be avaible with a offline serial in your user account" please note the further use of the legacy products is at your own risk and wont be supported further

You still don't seem to grasp that it's the authorization method itself that needs to be removed because it's not good anymore (esp on Catalina), it's not about the front end application used for authorizing stuff.

[fmr]

I would really like to keep my Ni pro 53 going... how can I do that as native access does not activate it? It would have been a wiser and better move if the announcement was more along the lines of " native instruments have completely migrated native service centre to native access and ALL native products can be managed from you native access account" or "due to the changes to native service center, affected products, the products will be avaible with a offline serial in your user account" please note the further use of the legacy products is at your own risk and wont be supported further

^^^ T H I S ^^^

[fmr]

deleted because of quotation error

[PAK]

That's actually not accurate. For example, as soon as you login to Native Access you accept our EULA.

I'm presuming this is why the NI lawyers felt they were ok to go ahead with this, that by moving the goalposts when changing the EULA they concluded that no further action would be required on NI's part. I doubt that's very robust legally

It's absolutely not. To update different products you'd be forced to accept the EULA for unrelated products! If they think that'll stand up in court they've got advisers doing some very wishful thinking.

but the point is that it would need to be challenged in court which they knew is quite unlikely due to the eye-watering costs involved for anyone wanting to bring a suit.

Right. However, in many countries, the loser may pay both parties legal fees. So you need a lawyer who would take the case on a no fee basis. Given such a blatant violation of original EULA, and the ridiculous way in which they're trying to bypass it, I think it'd also attract the attention of consumer advocacy groups, with related bad publicity, if that's the direction NI chose. I doubt it'll come to that..

What's really sad about this is all is NI thinking any of it was even remotely acceptable. They have lost their way as a company. Thank goodness for the ghost of NI-past, which protected us from the jerk moves of NI-present.

Maybe NI future should just get on with the rental model, and all that money which awaits them selling loops in DJ software.

Who but the most deluded fanboy, knowing any of this, would buy virtual instruments from them now? They can pull the plug at any time, refuse to give you a way to activate your software, and they actually think that's ok! Unless they put these terms back in their EULA I will not be buying from NI again..

It really seems like they're on a path to self-destruction with moves like these.

[fmr]

deleted

[Sascha Franck]

Native Access is still activating a lot of the products we have listed. Some users do not even use Service Center at all and so I want to make it clear that this is also affecting user that are using NA today. It's important to understand that the issue is with the activation mechanisms and we are not just dropping a bunch of products working perfectly fine today.

Well, that doesn't change much regarding the legal ground.
Even if these products were ported to also work with NA, the EULAs presented on your day of purchase are still the valid ones.

[Sascha Franck]

You still don't seem to grasp that it's the authorization method itself that needs to be removed because it's not good anymore (esp on Catalina), it's not about the front end application used for authorizing stuff.

So, in case we take the entire copy protection issue out, which of the products affected would install under Catalina anyway? I guess none, because their installers would fail notarization. As a result of that, NI would be off the hook for all these cases, it's entirely Apples fault that these won't work anymore, the issue of copy protecting them isn't even touched.

It's really only older systems on which perfectly working plugins can't be re-installed anymore that should be paid attention to. And to do so, NI would just have to keep its current version of Service Center running. Case closed, as easy as that.

[fmr]

It's really only older systems on which perfectly working plugins can't be re-installed anymore that should be paid attention to. And to do so, NI would just have to keep its current version of Service Center running. Case closed, as easy as that.

Or change the copy protection to just a serial, and completely get rid of Service Center and all the safety problems

I gave up of Pro 53 and B4 II because of problems with Service Center in the past. With a serial number only authorization, I could get back using them. Even Bandstand, I had to give up in OS X, and only keep using it in Windows.

[noiseboyuk]

Who but the most deluded fanboy, knowing any of this, would buy virtual instruments from them now?

Well again, that's perhaps where we differ. I'm waiting to see the outcome of this, especially since we're told they're going back to the drawing board on their plans.

I don't think I'm a "deluded fanboy", but do think NI is vital to the composing industry with Kontakt libraries. We could argue all day about the hoops we might jump through to avoid them, but I have little faith that the competitors systems are more robust. If NI make good here, by far the best outcome for us all.

[enroe]

You still don't seem to grasp that it's the authorization method itself that needs to be removed because it's not good anymore (esp on Catalina), it's not about the front end application used for authorizing stuff.

Hahaaa yeah, that is good!

You say: "Hey Boy, we've to kill you. But really, don't take it personally - it's just
a technical thing - says the Boss."