NI have announced they will no longer activate discontinued products

[PAK]

That's as close to a lock in as they have, and perhaps why they think they can act in these ways.

...but they're NOT acting in these ways. They made a mistake, they're now looking for a better solution.

Before they made the mistake was the action. Someone signed off on this. If they want to correct the "mistake" then part of that correction process isn't just about issuing a patch. It's about putting those consumer protections back into their EULA.

One could find fault with every single CP mechanism on the market, one could therefore avoid them all as a point of principle, and some do just that. Good for them. I have a job to do, so I work with what we have, imperfect though it undoubtedly is. If NI demonstrate they've taken this seriously, it will go a long way for me. You likely disagree, there we go.

No, I don't disagree.. I have actually noticed the world is an imperfect place It still doesn't mean we shouldn't ask companies to be the best they can. NI are responding this time, which is indeed good. But they're also over a bit of a dubious legal barrel, so it's also questionable how much choice they really had..

I would rather they put those conditions back into the EULA, so we enjoy the same protections moving forward.

[fmr]

If you want infinite support, buy hardware.....and then when the company folds or no longer makes replacement parts, then you will be in the exact same position you are now. At least you can use it as a decoration.

That's life.

Not really. There are a bunch of 3rd party people/compaines repairing old hardware gear, creating new power supplies, changing the displays, replacing the floppies to more modern solutions, replacing keys, pads, wheels, sliders and all kinds of stuff.

I got older samplers right next to me that are maybe twice the age of Native Instruments. They work and people are still repairing those things. 3rd party service for code doesn't exist.

/C

I wonder why Jupiter-8s or CS-80s, or Minimoogs or ARP 2600s are so valuable today.

Maybe that's because a lot of hipsters are using them for decoration purposes

[fmr]

It's really only older systems on which perfectly working plugins can't be re-installed anymore that should be paid attention to. And to do so, NI would just have to keep its current version of Service Center running. Case closed, as easy as that.

Or change the copy protection to just a serial, and completely get rid of Service Center and all the safety problems

I gave up of Pro 53 and B4 II because of problems with Service Center in the past. With a serial number only authorization, I could get back using them. Even Bandstand, I had to give up in OS X, and only keep using it in Windows.

This won't happen, though, because as already mentioned, it requires modifying and recompiling source code, which is too much effort. You don't do this to discontinued products in general. Or if you do it, you do it around the time of discontinuation, not 10+ years later. Show me one case where a software vendor changed the auth scheme 10+ years later after discontinuation.

I probably won't find any, but I find some that simply released their code as open source.

I don't expect NI to do that, though. But if they find a way to allow me to circumvent Service Center altogether, that would be deeply appreciated

[JJ_Jettflow]

General observation - much of this thread is still arguing and positing things that are no longer relevant, given NI's change of stance. General prediction - this will continue.

The thread was never relevant. It is just another dev bashing thread just like the ones started against Plugin Alliance, IK Multimedia, Slate, iLok, Disco DSP and a host of other companies that are targeted for attack here for no apparent or legitimate reason.

The fact is that all titles from NI that are being discontinued have either been superseded by newer versions or have not been available for quite some time. Threads like this are an embarrassment for KVR and should be locked immediately by the mods because there are no real discussions going on in them. It is just cyberbullying.

Please make me understand just to clarify.

So I currently have, as an example, Chris Hein Violin and Cello libraries that need Kontakt 5 to run. Regardless of whether or not something comes out that's better and these libraries someday are discontinued, they are not only good enough for me but VITAL to my making the music I make.

So you're telling me that if, 10 years from now, NI decides that it will no longer allow me to authorize these libraries on a new install, that's okay? I will be FORCED to buy something else that I clearly don't need because they essentially tell me that I can't use it anymore?

In what universe is that even remotely acceptable?

You look me in the eye and tell me with a straight face that THIS is okay.

I have tons of software that is obsolete for one reason or another...that's life. If you want infinite support, buy hardware.....and then when the company folds or no longer makes replacement parts, then you will be in the exact same position you are now. At least you can use it as a decoration.

That's life.

As do I, except here's the difference.

The software I no longer can use, it was MY OWN CHOICE to do whatever upgrade to my OS I decided to do that made that software NO LONGER USABLE.

In this case, NI is telling me that software that STILL RUNS ON MY MACHINE PERFECTLY WELL, I can NO LONGER USE if I have to do a reinstall because they will NO LONGER AUTHORIZE IT after they TOLD ME IN THE EULA THAT THEY WOULD.

I will stop there because what I want to say next, I will end up getting banned from this forum.

I am playing my violin just for you...

[JJ_Jettflow]

That's life.

You are confusing your life with other peoples lives.

You choose to live a life with less hassle and just accept things - that's your choice.

There can be wisdom in choosing that way.

But if you really want a quiet and peaceful life why are you in this thread ?

Because I am a member and have the right to voice my opinion just like everyone else...even if goes against the mob mentality.

[Vertion]

His name is.EULA, and he is the head of NI customer support.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M213TbKqxlU

[JJ_Jettflow]

If you want infinite support, buy hardware.....and then when the company folds or no longer makes replacement parts, then you will be in the exact same position you are now. At least you can use it as a decoration.

That's life.

Not really. There are a bunch of 3rd party people/compaines repairing old hardware gear, creating new power supplies, changing the displays, replacing the floppies to more modern solutions, replacing keys, pads, wheels, sliders and all kinds of stuff.

I got older samplers right next to me that are maybe twice the age of Native Instruments. They work and people are still repairing those things. 3rd party service for code doesn't exist.

/C

So all hardware is still being supported? No, just a small portion. The rest is as useful as obsolete software.

[JJ_Jettflow]

General observation - much of this thread is still arguing and positing things that are no longer relevant, given NI's change of stance. General prediction - this will continue.

The thread was never relevant. It is just another dev bashing thread just like the ones started against Plugin Alliance, IK Multimedia, Slate, iLok, Disco DSP and a host of other companies that are targeted for attack here for no apparent or legitimate reason.

The fact is that all titles from NI that are being discontinued have either been superseded by newer versions or have not been available for quite some time. Threads like this are an embarrassment for KVR and should be locked immediately by the mods because there are no real discussions going on in them. It is just cyberbullying.

Please make me understand just to clarify.

So I currently have, as an example, Chris Hein Violin and Cello libraries that need Kontakt 5 to run. Regardless of whether or not something comes out that's better and these libraries someday are discontinued, they are not only good enough for me but VITAL to my making the music I make.

So you're telling me that if, 10 years from now, NI decides that it will no longer allow me to authorize these libraries on a new install, that's okay? I will be FORCED to buy something else that I clearly don't need because they essentially tell me that I can't use it anymore?

In what universe is that even remotely acceptable?

You look me in the eye and tell me with a straight face that THIS is okay.

I have tons of software that is obsolete for one reason or another...that's life. If you want infinite support, buy hardware.....and then when the company folds or no longer makes replacement parts, then you will be in the exact same position you are now. At least you can use it as a decoration.

That's life.

General observation - much of this thread is still arguing and positing things that are no longer relevant, given NI's change of stance. General prediction - this will continue.

The thread was never relevant. It is just another dev bashing thread just like the ones started against Plugin Alliance, IK Multimedia, Slate, iLok, Disco DSP and a host of other companies that are targeted for attack here for no apparent or legitimate reason.

The fact is that all titles from NI that are being discontinued have either been superseded by newer versions or have not been available for quite some time. Threads like this are an embarrassment for KVR and should be locked immediately by the mods because there are no real discussions going on in them. It is just cyberbullying.

Please make me understand just to clarify.

So I currently have, as an example, Chris Hein Violin and Cello libraries that need Kontakt 5 to run. Regardless of whether or not something comes out that's better and these libraries someday are discontinued, they are not only good enough for me but VITAL to my making the music I make.

So you're telling me that if, 10 years from now, NI decides that it will no longer allow me to authorize these libraries on a new install, that's okay? I will be FORCED to buy something else that I clearly don't need because they essentially tell me that I can't use it anymore?

In what universe is that even remotely acceptable?

You look me in the eye and tell me with a straight face that THIS is okay.

I have tons of software that is obsolete for one reason or another...that's life. If you want infinite support, buy hardware.....and then when the company folds or no longer makes replacement parts, then you will be in the exact same position you are now. At least you can use it as a decoration.

That's life.

35 pages in and some people think this is about the expectation and demanding of continuing support for these products.

You are also clearly missing that NI themselves now understand why this announcement has caused the uproar that it has; something that they likely wouldn’t even consider if the perception was that this was nothing but developer-bashing.

I understand.. I just don't care

[JJ_Jettflow]

Don't feed the troll, guys.

The whole thread is a troll.

[bharris22]

Camel Audio seems to me to be a model to emulate here. Nobody was happy (other than the owners of Camel Audio) when they decided to sell the company and stop selling, authorizing and supporting non-Logic versions of Alchemy. However, they gave everyone about 6 months of notice, created authorized versions of Alchemy for each user AND provided specific instructions as to how to download and install those versions at any time in the future. Thus, even though Camel Audio no longer exists and they no longer support Alchemy, licensees can still install and use the product on any hardware that will run it. If Camel Audio can do this, why can't NI?

[Gamma-UT]

I understand.. I just don't care

I’m sure if you post another 20 times about how little you care about this, someone, somewhere might believe you.

[Gamma-UT]

Camel Audio seems to me to be a model to emulate here. Nobody was happy (other than the owners of Camel Audio) when they decided to sell the company and stop selling, authorizing and supporting non-Logic versions of Alchemy. However, they gave everyone about 6 months of notice, created authorized versions of Alchemy for each user AND provided specific instructions as to how to download and install those versions at any time in the future. Thus, even though Camel Audio no longer exists and they no longer support Alchemy, licensees can still install and use the product on any hardware that will run it. If Camel Audio can do this, why can't NI?

Also Redmatica, another audio-tools vendor bought by Apple. They built end-of-life releases that use a serial rather than C/R.

[Forgotten]

Camel Audio seems to me to be a model to emulate here. Nobody was happy (other than the owners of Camel Audio) when they decided to sell the company and stop selling, authorizing and supporting non-Logic versions of Alchemy. However, they gave everyone about 6 months of notice, created authorized versions of Alchemy for each user AND provided specific instructions as to how to download and install those versions at any time in the future. Thus, even though Camel Audio no longer exists and they no longer support Alchemy, licensees can still install and use the product on any hardware that will run it. If Camel Audio can do this, why can't NI?

But they were not trying to support a portfolio of products as large as NI, nor were they planning on continuing to support current software at the same time as they were transitioning a product to Apple.

It’s a very different situation.

[Gamma-UT]

But they were not trying to support a portfolio of products as large as NI, nor were they planning on continuing to support current software at the same time as they were transitioning a product to Apple.

It’s a very different situation.

It’s exactly one product that’s affected: Service Center. Markus Krause posted a workable solution earlier. There are others.

That’s even assuming your point is relevant. The Camel group in Apple continued work on v2.

[Forgotten]

But they were not trying to support a portfolio of products as large as NI, nor were they planning on continuing to support current software at the same time as they were transitioning a product to Apple.

It’s a very different situation.

It’s exactly one product that’s affected: Service Center. Markus Krause posted a workable solution earlier. There are others.

That’s even assuming your point is relevant. The Camel group in Apple continued work on v2.

Lots of people have posted what they think are ‘workable solutions’, but I’m pretty sure none of them are NI employees or have insight into the design of the impacted software and systems...