KVR Audio

flugel45 · Post by **flugel45** » Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:44 pm

Art Vista's Virtual Grand Piano is on the list.

This product is currently on version 3, and still available to purchase today:

http://www.artvista.net/vgp3.html

The announcement doesn't make clear if it applies to all versions of VGP (though that seems to be implied). If so, that means that if you bought the current version on May 30, you will be unable to reinstall it on May 31!

JoeCat · Post by **JoeCat** » Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:47 pm

vurt wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:45 pm
JoeCat wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:43 pm They just (sorta) reversed the decision:
https://www.musicradar.com/news/native- ... y-products

Will this thread now self-destruct? Nah :
posting a link to a news item in the thread news item cites...

mind blown!

not the same news item - un-blow your mind

mcbpete · Post by **mcbpete** » Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:48 pm

flugel45 wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:44 pm The announcement doesn't make clear if it applies to all versions of VGP (though that seems to be implied). If so, that means that if you bought the current version on May 30, you will be unable to reinstall it on May 31!

According to the musicradar link on the previous page ( https://www.musicradar.com/news/native- ... y-products ) it seems like the process is still TBC as regards 3rd party content:

It continues: “In regards to 3rd party instruments and our own content products, we are currently looking into possible workarounds.”

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:56 pm

flugel45 wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:44 pm Art Vista's Virtual Grand Piano is on the list.

This product is currently on version 3, and still available to purchase today:

http://www.artvista.net/vgp3.html

The announcement doesn't make clear if it applies to all versions of VGP (though that seems to be implied). If so, that means that if you bought the current version on May 30, you will be unable to reinstall it on May 31!

It's only the first version, which is very very old.

AsPeeXXXVIII · Post by **AsPeeXXXVIII** » Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:43 pm

Geez, I hope Komplete 11 Select doesn't count as discontinued...

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:44 pm

Why would it? Just came out 3 years ago or so... and, it's activated via Native Access.

Forgotten · Post by **Forgotten** » Thu Mar 12, 2020 3:51 pm

Gamma-UT wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 2:23 pm
Forgotten wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 1:29 pm Lots of people have posted what they think are ‘workable solutions’, but I’m pretty sure none of them are NI employees or have insight into the design of the impacted software and systems...
So, basically, your argument is if there are no workable solutions that NI was never able to honour its own commitments as laid out in its own EULA? And this is a good reason for failing to do it? Interesting.

No, that is not my argument at all. In fact, I didn’t even post an argument - it’s an observation that no one has contested.

Teksonik · Post by **Teksonik** » Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:43 pm

Matt_NI · Post by **Matt_NI** » Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:44 pm

Sorry everyone if I can't respond to every individual messages on here.
I have another meeting about this tomorrow morning and I'll make sure to share new findings on here.

goldenanalog · Post by **goldenanalog** » Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:57 pm

Matt_NI wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:44 pm Sorry everyone if I can't respond to every individual messages on here.
I have another meeting about this tomorrow morning and I'll make sure to share new findings on here.

Thank-you, Matt!

im personally fine w/an unbeatable deal/buy out; but my preference for the community's sake is that the software that people here currently own licenses for be supported in perpetuity, if at all possible, from a reasonable financial perspective.

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:06 pm

goldenanalog wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 4:57 pm im personally fine w/an unbeatable deal/buy out; but my preference for the community's sake is that the software that people here currently own licenses for be supported in perpetuity, if at all possible, from a reasonable financial perspective.

Thing is, I believe many people would be happy about a great deal offer (myself included - but I'm only theoretically affected, hence I wouldn't even ask).
But, for NI that doesn't mean much because they would still be vulnerable, should anyone ever ask them to comply with their EULAs.
That's their dilemma and they should've taken care of it a long time ago.

noiseboyuk · Post by **noiseboyuk** » Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:13 pm

FWIW - I don't want an offer, I want a solution. This issue is far bigger than my copy of Stormdrum 1 (how magnanimous of me). By far it will be in my long term interests - and that of the community as a whole - for NI to get their authorisation system to a point where all products will be ok during the coming years, not just for the ones that they have an issue with right now.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:19 pm

By the way if we're talking about legally binding EULAs, here's one from FM7 in 2001. It doesn't contain the clause 5 from 2016 EULA that I initially found...

SOFTWARE LICENSING CONTRACT

The following information represents the contractual conditions for the use of software, manufactured by Native Instruments Software Synthesis GmbH (hereinafter called Native Instruments) by you, the final user (hereinafter called the Licensee).

By installing the software on your computer, or by sending back the registration card, you are declaring yourself to be in agreement with the contractual conditions, so please read the following text carefully.

If you are not in agreement with these conditions, you must not install the software. In this event, please return the complete product (including all written matter, packaging, and any included hardware) to the dealer from whom it was originally bought. The price you paid will be refunded in full.

CONTRACTUAL CONDITIONS

1. Object of the Contract

The object of the contract consists of the computer programs recorded on the supplied CD-ROM(s), the relevant usage instructions, program descriptions, and hardware (e.g. "dongle" etc). These are described hereinafter as "Licensed software", or "Licensed hardware".

2. Scope of use

Native Instruments grants the Licensee, for the duration of this contract, rights - which are neither exclusive nor transferable (called hereinafter the "License") - to use the Licensed software and Licensed hardware on one single computer only (i.e. one Central Processing Unit) at one single place. If this single computer is connected to a multi-user system, this License shall apply to all users of the system.

The Licensee may personally use the Licensed software or Licensed hardware temporarily on another computer, on condition that the said software and hardware is normally used regularly on one particular computer. Use above and beyond these limits, including use by a third party, is not permissible.

3. Permission to copy

The Licensee is given the right to prepare machine-readable copies of the Licensed software for keeping in storage, provided such copies are only intended to replace or reconstruct used or destroyed copies of the original Licensed software, and are only used within the context of the rights assigned under this contract.

The Licensee is not entitled to transfer the Licensed software into the core memory of another CPU.

The Licensee is under an obligation to keep a record of all the copies he produces, and of their locations. He must present Native Instruments with this record at any time if there is any suspicion of misuse.

Upon the expiry of this contract, or of any subsequent contract covering the same Licensed software and hardware, the Licensee is under an obligation - whether or not requested to do so - to totally destroy all copies of the Licensed software, whether in machine-readable form or any other, and the pertinent documentation. If this Licensed software is stored electronically, the Licensee must delete it totally, and make a legally binding declaration to Native Instruments that this obligation has been fulfilled. The original software which the Licensee receives from Native Instruments is exempt from this requirement.

4. Native Instruments's rights over the Licensed software and hardware

Native Instruments, or any licensor of Native Instruments, is the holder of all rights of ownership and other rights over the Licensed software, hardware, documentation, the CD-ROM and printed material given to the Licensee in execution of this contract. In those cases when Native Instruments is the Licensee, Native Instruments is entitled to pass on the Licensed software and hardware under the terms of this contract.

The Licensee assigns, and Native Instruments accepts, the rights of ownership over all copies of the Licensed software and/or documentation produced by the Licensee during the lifetime of this contract, including any such material that may be produced by the Licensee in breach of this contract. Ownership rights to disks, diskettes, or tape of any kind is likewise assigned, except in the case of non-separable copies in the core memory of a CPU.

Whenever a copy is made, it must be ensured that Native Instruments's copyright notice is attached, with an indication of all of Native Instruments's rights under the foregoing paragraphs in a machine-readable form (if machine-readable copies are being prepared) and/or in plain language. An indication of the ownership and all other rights of Native Instruments as defined in the foregoing paragraphs is to be attached clearly and visibly, printed on or firmly attached to all disks, diskettes or tape of any kind on which the Licensed software is stored. The same applies for the documentation belonging to the Licensed software and hardware, and the containers in which this documentation is stored.

5. Exclusivity of Licensed software and hardware

The Licensee is to use the Licensed software he receives from Native Instruments, all copies thereof, and all pertinent documentation exclusively for his own purposes, and must keep it separate from third parties.

He must ensure that no third party or any of his own employees, unless authorised, will have access to the Licensed software, may copy part or all of the Licensed software, or be given any opportunity to do so. The Licensee bears legal liability towards Native Instruments for any loss or damage - including any subsequent losses incurred by Native Instruments - resulting from the Licensee not keeping the programs for exclusive use, or not doing so with sufficient assiduity.

The Licensee is in particular not entitled to grant any third party rights of usership over the Licensed software or hardware. Occasional use by a third party is only permissible if this is absolutely essential for the Licensee's use. Renting or lending out the Licensed software and hardware is expressly forbidden.

6. Guarantee and legal liability

Native Instruments and the Licensee are aware that functional defects in the Licensed software cannot be totally ruled out, despite the present state of technical knowledge, even if the very greatest care is taken. The unrestricted functionality of the Licensed software and/or the rectification of all faults therefore cannot be totally guaranteed.

Native Instruments's legal liability for programming errors in the Licensed software, including later up-dates provided for under this contract, is therefore restricted to any case of Native Instruments acting with intent or gross negligence.

Having stated this, Native Instruments takes on the guarantee towards the Licensee that, at the point in time when the contract is concluded, the Licensed software and hardware will prove to be free of all material and technical defects under normal operating conditions. Should the CD-ROM or the Licensed hardware prove defective, the Licensee can demand their replacement during a period of 6 months from receipt of the Licensed software and hardware. In this instance he must return the CD-ROM containing the Licensed software and any Licensed hardware, including hand-books, documentation, and a copy of the invoice/receipt, to Native Instruments's sales organisation in his country, or to the dealer from whom it was bought.

Native Instruments undertakes, for a period of six months from the conclusion of this contract, to undertake everything that can be expected to ensure the functionality of the Licensed software and hardware in compliance with the specifications and the program description. The provision for this guarantee is that the Licensed software and hardware be operated in the configuration provided for, and under appropriate operating conditions. Native Instruments does not guarantee uninterrupted and faultless operation.

All guarantee claims on behalf of the Licensee become invalid if he tampers with the Licensed software or hardware, or modifies them in any way whatsoever, regardless of the extent of such modifications. The translation of the Licensed software into any other program language is also to be regarded as a modification.

At Native Instruments's discretion, the guarantee can take the form of changing the Licensed software or hardware, or exchanging it for different Licensed software or hardware. In those instances when, within the context of the guarantee, the scope of the Licensed software would have to be changed, in particular if more memory capacity is needed for the program, the Licensee can make no claims of any kind against Native Instruments.

The Licensee has no rights over and above the aforementioned. Native Instruments bears no liability for any loss or damage to the Licensed software or hardware, or to other programs and/or the hardware being used, for the loss of working results, turnover, or profit, or for direct or indirect loss or damage suffered by the Licensee or any third party, unless such loss or damage has been caused by Native Instruments acting with intent or gross negligence. Native Instruments in particular provides no guarantee that the Licensed software or hardware meets the Licensee's requirements and purposes, or can work in conjunction with other programs he may have selected. The responsibility for the correct selection and for the use of the Licensed software and hardware, and for the results aimed for or achieved, is borne by the Licensee.

7. Duration of the contract and notice of termination

The contract comes into force from the moment the software is installed on your computer or when the registration card is returned, and remains in force for an unspecified time until notice of termination is served either by the Licensee or by Native Instruments.

The Licensee can serve 30 days notice of termination at any time by registered letter.

Both parties are free to serve extraordinary notice of termination for a major cause. If the Licensee should infringe any of the above obligations, this will be regarded as a major cause justifying Native Instruments's termination of the contract. Native Instruments is free to decide at its own discretion in what form this notice should be served.

As soon as the notice of termination takes effect, the Licensee is to return to Native Instruments the originals of the Licensed software and the hardware he received from Native Instruments, to destroy all copies and recordings of the Licensed software, and to give a legally binding written assurance that he has done so.

8. Concluding stipulations

This contract shall be exclusively subject to the laws of the state in which it is published.

The Licensee declares himself to be in agreement with the personal data obtained through this business relationship which may be used by Native Instruments for its own company purposes, and for the purposes of its Company Group, within the boundaries of the relevant Data Protection laws.

If any stipulation of this License contract should be or become invalid, either completely or in part, this shall not affect the validity of the remaining stipulations. The parties undertake instead to replace the invalid stipulation with a valid regulation which comes as close as possible to the purpose originally intended.

The place of jurisdiction is the location of the national sales company or agent. Native Instruments can also however, at its discretion, open proceedings at the registered address of the Licensee.

Should you have any queries concerning this License contract, please contact in writing Native Instruments Software Synthesis GmbH, Berlin, Germany.

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:25 pm

I don't think FM7 was protected via Service Center back then, but I'm not sure about that.

el-bo (formerly ebow) · Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:27 pm

noiseboyuk wrote: Thu Mar 12, 2020 5:13 pm FWIW - I don't want an offer, I want a solution. This issue is far bigger than my copy of Stormdrum 1 (how magnanimous of me). By far it will be in my long term interests - and that of the community as a whole - for NI to get their authorisation system to a point where all products will be ok during the coming years, not just for the ones that they have an issue with right now.

This!

I have been with NI since I first started buying music software, fifteen-years-ago. And though this current batch of dropped titles doesn't affect me, how they act to resolve this situation will ultimately inform my decision to either stay with their products or ditch them and look for alternatives.

NI have announced they will no longer activate discontinued products