NI have announced they will no longer activate discontinued products

VST, AU, AAX, CLAP, etc. Plugin Virtual Instruments Discussion
Post Reply New Topic
RELATED
PRODUCTS

Post

chk071 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:13 pm Just so that I understand it: You can use Massive on your 4k display, but you can't see Massive X?

That surprises me, because, MX's GUI is bigger, and, AFAIK, Massive 1's GUI isn't resizable? Maybe I don't understand you correctnly.
No, I never mentioned MX. My patches are written for Massive and Kontakt.

For those reading this wondering why not just switch to MX, it's not the work of converting about 100 patches in our active setlist (plus another ~200 inactive setlist patches). I wrote 'em once; rewriting would be tedious but not impossible.

It's a combination of not being able to get the sounds quite the same which, after a decade of playing them, would make them seem foreign, and a paranoia borne of long experience that when I change a major VST that there are weird compatibility things that take a few months to straighten out. Even if it is 99% perfect, since we perform about 45 songs in a gig, after one gig there's about an even chance something going south, and if it causes problem with a song loading then that's probably catastrophic as most of our songs involve prominent piano or organ. (Even though I use Pianoteq or VB4 for that, that resizes perfectly, I often load Kontakt or Massive too since many/most patches have subtle "extras" that make it sound great - things like horn stabs, or subtle synth pads). When one patch fails to load it can bring down a song, and that derails the entire band. A bad experience can cause us to lose a contract. And when things go bad live, the error dialog that Kontakt throws is almost unreadable.

For a typical example (that happened), think "Back in the USSR". A casual listen says the only keys part is tack piano, which I cover on Pianoteq. But if Kontakt fails to find the jet sound that opens the piece it opens an impossible-to-see locator window that stops the rest of the patch from loading. We could get by without the opening jet with at worst a hiccup as the band realizes at different times to come in, but without the tack piano the song sounds awful. And in poor lighting it was really, really hard to close the modal dialog box from Kontakt to let me play on with the main sounds that worked fine.

I could switch to a lower-performing laptop, or push the laptop into a lower resolution that makes it difficult to see upcoming patches in my host. It seems that's the tail wagging the dog though...limiting what I see live just so I can use Kontakt and Massive, when most of my songs use Pianoteq or VB4 that have no such issues.

So for now, when I need horn stabs, or a synth fill, or a recognizable synth solo line, or a triggered background FX, I use my old Kontakt or Massive patches, even though I can no longer really modify them because I can't really see them, and freeze my directory structure since moving anything would require me to interact with Massive or Kontakt.

Really, for me, the uproar about NI trying to discontinue old programs isn't nearly as frustrating as not being able to use their current programs.

Post

kenny saunders wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:10 pm
The NI managements main priority are the shareholders. Perhaps if it was owned by a person you can think in such a way. Shareholders ONLY concern is squeezing more money from customers for less work/cost year on year.
I'm pretty sure that NI is a privately listed company and the two major shareholders are Daniel and Mate...

They got some funds from a private equity company to help expand in a few areas and those funds would have come with strict conditions...

My feeling is that the expected growth targets were not met and that has put a bit of pressure on the company.

Like I said earlier,it would be great if NI could ditch a lot of the corporate BS and get back to creating inspiring soft synths and effects. :wink:
No auto tune...

Post

Perhaps all of this is a symptom of not focusing on core products and expanding without time or resources to look back to older products?

With the recent reductions it’s going to make that even more difficult, but they are going to have to make difficult decisions like this now. Hopefully this will lead to a better perspective on growth vs. maintenance of existing products.

Post

sacer wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:13 pm The most amusing about NI is the backward compatiblity - If you have used kontakt 3, guitar rig 3, maschine 1, absynth 4 or reaktor 5, battery 3 etc. all newer versions are not compatible to open the older versions in the DAW. So you have to manually select the newer major vst version in your DAW, import or select the preset and it sounds the same than in the older version, there is no reason for the compatiblity soundwise. It doesn't matter if you open monark in reaktor 5 or 6 or a Kontakt library in kontakt 3 or 6. But the problem about that userfriendly innovation is, that you have to keep all older versions like kontakt 3 or guitar rig 3 installed, otherwise you can't edit them again and don't know which preset or sound you have used. I have lot of battery 3 and maschine1 used and i worry about maschine 2 sw, which was also used very often and will also be abondaned soon.

I think this was also the shootout for KORE because it wasn't compatible to every new Komplete Version, when first versions have used kontakt 3 and later kontakt 4 and the same for guitar rig. They learned nothing about it.

Other companys like steinberg, omnisphere, Tone2, U-He, UVI, newer Arturia Stuff and even Nexus think about it and the major update can be opened in older daw projects.
Now they cut older activations, harware support and i think maschine 1 and kore2 will follow very soon. They don't think about customers, they are miles away from their old customers and think they can do what they want like Apple.
Yep this is truly stupid, and one of the reasons I abandoned Kontakt many years ago and never looked back. Now to extricate myself from every piece of shit NI product I still use.

Post

Blah blah apple lol.
I lost my heart in Cap de Creus

Post

God to see NI engage on here, let's see.

Kontakt does enable so much pleasure, some gorgeous libraries. Won't be abandoning what I've got, life's too precarious to get too butthurt over fking music SW.
I lost my heart in Cap de Creus

Post

sacer wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:13 pm The most amusing about NI is the backward compatiblity - If you have used kontakt 3, guitar rig 3, maschine 1, absynth 4 or reaktor 5, battery 3 etc. all newer versions are not compatible to open the older versions in the DAW.
Unless you're on Mac and use AU plugin flavour, because Kontakt has had AU version inheritance feature implemented since Kontakt 5.1 or so. This means that you don't have to have, say, Kontakt 2 installed if you have Kontakt 6 installed - your project would open Kontakt 2 instances as Kontakt 6 instances.

Unfortunately VST2 (or apparently even VST3) doesn't have this property.

I would say that side-by-side installs of major versions of Kontakt etc. is actually beneficial in professional workflows, because you can check out what new version offers without fear of your ongoing projects going awry because of a bug or misbehavior in that same new version...

There are pros and cons to everything, as always.
moshimoshi wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 3:05 pmYep this is truly stupid
It's not stupid, as mentioned above there are workflows where side-by-side new version installs are actually preferred. And Kontakt is used in professional workflows extremely often.

Post

Forgotten wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 3:03 pm Perhaps all of this is a symptom of not focusing on core products and expanding without time or resources to look back to older products?
bingo!

(or as some may say, corporate greed)

Post

EvilDragon wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 3:33 pm apparently even VST3 doesn't have this property.

...spreading unknowingness!

Every new VST3 plugin version completely replaces all older versions and of course inherits all parameters and settings. A project that I once started with HALion 4 now simply opens with HALion 6, and I can continue working seamlessly, supplemented with the new H6 functions. THIS is exactly what I expect and one of the reasons why I left Kontakt in favour of HALion many years ago.

By the way: notoriously not supporting VST3 is another NI "feature" that raises red flags...

Post

digitalboytn wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:55 pm
kenny saunders wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 2:10 pm
The NI managements main priority are the shareholders. Perhaps if it was owned by a person you can think in such a way. Shareholders ONLY concern is squeezing more money from customers for less work/cost year on year.
I'm pretty sure that NI is a privately listed company and the two major shareholders are Daniel and Mate...

They got some funds from a private equity company to help expand in a few areas and those funds would have come with strict conditions...

My feeling is that the expected growth targets were not met and that has put a bit of pressure on the company.

Like I said earlier,it would be great if NI could ditch a lot of the corporate BS and get back to creating inspiring soft synths and effects. :wink:
Oh right, I must have confused that with going public, but yeah they sure seem to be about the money since then.
If you don't eat yer meat, you can't have any pudding. HOW CAN YOU HAVE ANY PUDDING IF YOU DON'T EAT YER MEAT!?

Post

So, no NI news yet. Ok, might as well be due to the critical situation over here.
There are 3 kinds of people:
Those who can do maths and those who can't.

Post

Sorry everyone little late, long day but catching up with some additional information from today's discussion.

First, the team is actively trying to organise the possibility of extending the transition period and so offer more time to the customers affected by this announcement.

For NI's product, we are investigating different possible scenarios which would allow to keep some usability on compatible systems. The team is gathering feedback from various experts to see where we stand technically and what is do-able with what we have available for the legacy instruments. It seems like we are already making good progress on identifying products that could be useable (for ex, Pro-53). To stay as transparent as possible, we will share more technical information from our experts about our process and also some of our challenges.

For 3rd party instruments, we will reach out to every partners again to see if we can take further actions and which scenarios might be suitable to address this topic. The challenges we face with the large majority of OEM instruments remains but we will tackle this from every reasonable angle possible.

We are still very much in the process so I'll definitely deliver regular updates.
Feel free if you have questions in the meantime, I will try to answer as much as I can over the weekend.
Native Instruments - Community
Support & Contact
We're also available via Twitter :arrow: https://twitter.com/NI_Support

Post

Sascha Franck wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 6:30 pm So, no NI news yet. Ok, might as well be due to the critical situation over here.
Well we also have to deal with the challenges the team are facing around the local health situation. Need to get the instruments running but also stay safe, right.
Native Instruments - Community
Support & Contact
We're also available via Twitter :arrow: https://twitter.com/NI_Support

Post

once more this is insignificant compared to the pandemic
-hoping u can all stay safe NI!

Just to let you guys(Matt,NI)
all of Komplete 5 is working here on Win10
The installer discs crashed at the end of the twelfth disc,
but all the samples/presets were installed,
I can see this because I was able to install the most current
updates for all the plugins.
After using the discs, all the plugs were broken and crashed plugin-scan in any DAW. The latest updates fixed that.

The file version of Service Center that I successfully authorized them all is 2.6.0.137. The product version is 2.6.0 (IA32)
I wonder what I want in here
-my site is gone and music a mess

Post

nix808 wrote: Fri Mar 13, 2020 7:12 pm once more this is insignificant compared to the pandemic
-hoping u can all stay safe NI!

Just to let you guys(Matt,NI)
all of Komplete 5 is working here on Win10
The installer discs crashed at the end of the twelfth disc,
but all the samples/presets were installed,
I can see this because I was able to install the most current
updates for all the plugins.
After using the discs, all the plugs were broken and crashed plugin-scan in any DAW. The latest updates fixed that.

The file version of Service Center that I successfully authorized them all is 2.6.0.137. The product version is 2.6.0 (IA32)
Same to you!
I'll forward that to the deployment team actually, good intel.
Native Instruments - Community
Support & Contact
We're also available via Twitter :arrow: https://twitter.com/NI_Support

Post Reply

Return to “Instruments”