KVR Audio

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:36 pm

chk071 wrote: Sat Mar 14, 2020 5:41 pm Back up with... what exactly? Your opinion?

In case of Battery? With *hard* facts of NI taking away features.

machinesworking · Post by **machinesworking** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:54 pm

highkoo wrote: Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:42 pm A staunch defense of institutions sometimes requires a quick attack on an individual.

bmanic · Post by **bmanic** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:58 pm

chk071 wrote: Sat Mar 14, 2020 5:41 pm
Sascha Franck wrote: Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:30 pm I have seen pretty much each of their plugin iterations going their way and partially it has been more than just dissapointing. In case of Battery 3 vs. Battery 4, I would even say it's a straight offence of my intelligence trying to offer that POS as an update (and yes, I can easily back up that statement, should you wish...)
Back up with... what exactly? Your opinion?

Battery 3 was quite a bit more capable than Battery 4. There's been numerous discussions about this. It's not a coincidence that most Battery veterans who want to do bit more than just trigger a few samples stick with Battery 3 instead of 4. I have both installed and keep using Battery 3 most of the time.

Here's just one example video demonstrating these things (he misses quite a few downgrades too).

This whole Battery 3 vs 4 downgrade represents very well the degradation of Native-Instruments as a company in my opinion. It's become a sort of McDonalds of stuff in the past half a decade. Only Reaktor has kept their image slightly "innovative" over the years but even that relies mostly on old innovative ideas.. and even Reaktor has become more of a "Hey users! Don't bother making your own stuff. Just purchase special module packs for the Rack system we created to milk some more money! Wheee!".

.. which is why I personally have not purchased anything from NI in long time, and probably wont in the future. That company is a mess at the moment. We'll see what the years to come bring.

chk071 · Post by **chk071** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:06 pm

And that makes it a POS?

Sascha Franck · Post by **Sascha Franck** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:10 pm

chk071 wrote: Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:06 pm And that makes it a POS?

If you consider it was a paid upgrade: Yes, every bit!

EnGee · Post by **EnGee** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 8:43 pm

bmanic wrote: Sat Mar 14, 2020 7:58 pm
chk071 wrote: Sat Mar 14, 2020 5:41 pm
Sascha Franck wrote: Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:30 pm I have seen pretty much each of their plugin iterations going their way and partially it has been more than just dissapointing. In case of Battery 3 vs. Battery 4, I would even say it's a straight offence of my intelligence trying to offer that POS as an update (and yes, I can easily back up that statement, should you wish...)
Back up with... what exactly? Your opinion?
Battery 3 was quite a bit more capable than Battery 4. There's been numerous discussions about this. It's not a coincidence that most Battery veterans who want to do bit more than just trigger a few samples stick with Battery 3 instead of 4. I have both installed and keep using Battery 3 most of the time.

Here's just one example video demonstrating these things (he misses quite a few downgrades too).

This whole Battery 3 vs 4 downgrade represents very well the degradation of Native-Instruments as a company in my opinion. It's become a sort of McDonalds of stuff in the past half a decade. Only Reaktor has kept their image slightly "innovative" over the years but even that relies mostly on old innovative ideas.. and even Reaktor has become more of a "Hey users! Don't bother making your own stuff. Just purchase special module packs for the Rack system we created to milk some more money! Wheee!".

.. which is why I personally have not purchased anything from NI in long time, and probably wont in the future. That company is a mess at the moment. We'll see what the years to come bring.

I have the same opinion exactly! Add to that the joke release of Massive X and the tremendous effort and time to make it work like a modern release.

Also, take the hardware and their absolute dependence on the software (make them useless outside NI software). Tic tac tic tac then the bomb (the title/content of this thread).

It's really like delusional unhappy marriage (my ex marriage actually

). So, now I feel I can breathe and can use other tools which are not tied to special hardware or way of protection (except Bitwig devices, but even that I can use them with any hardware and Bitwig can be authorised offline).

When returning to work with synths from u-he, Sugar Bytes and Image Line, you wonder why I was resricting myself to NI with Native Access and bizarre support (must search for it to find it!!). Nah! Everything is pointing to not a happy end whatever stubborn I can be!

I have no regrets of leaving the ship. I feel more freedom and more productive

digitalboytn · Post by **digitalboytn** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 9:28 pm

highkoo wrote: Sat Mar 14, 2020 1:55 pm The only reason the bitching has made them revisit the decision is because the legally binding EULA language was discovered by users rather than NIs f**king lawyers.
Another bad sign.

Oof, codec_spurt put it on em!

There is really no need for any debate on this issue....

The original EULA is clear and unambiguous...

"5. Should Native Instruments, for whatever reasons, no longer be able to fulfill its obligations to deliver the activation key, it will provide Licensee with a key which ensures the continued use of the licensed software independent of changes to the computer."

It's all there in black and white...

This is what NI are legally required to do in this case

gentleclockdivider · Post by **gentleclockdivider** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:26 pm

I can't leave the ship because of reaktor , otherwise I would
It's the only piece of N.I. software I care about , but sadly the guy at the steering wheel is imho not the right person for the job
I wonder what would happen if Vadim Zavalishin would get a carte blanche

Trying to cash in on reaktor racks + their greedy license system , we're one year later and the only third party developer is toybox and hetrick

That says enough

Caine123 · Post by **Caine123** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:56 pm

Why dont they let us still use our stuff? We legally bought it! It is like steam wouldnt let you play your games anymore. F×ck this and anyone protecting this cannot be right in mind!

MissOptimyst · Post by **MissOptimyst** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 10:59 pm

Yikes guys, I was planning on getting Komplete 12 Select. Mainly because of regular Massive, Monark and the ability to get a discount if down the road I wanted to upgrade. I’m worried now that I could invest and then Massive could soon become obsolete at any time with the intro of Massive X. I think I might wait on it for now.

I have a feeling down the road I’ll end up with some NI stuff, I love their product quality, but yeah this definitely is concerning. Especially as someone who likes to keep all of their software and hardware working forever or as long as possible.

CrystalWizard · Post by **CrystalWizard** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 11:23 pm

Sascha Franck wrote: Sat Mar 14, 2020 2:30 pm
chk071 wrote: Sat Mar 14, 2020 11:41 am I just wonder what he's still doing in this thread, when he's so full of hate for NI.
So, what are you doing here, then?

Personally, I own 3 NI hardware devices.
Further, I'm a Komplete user from back in the days of Komplete 2, the latest one being Komplete 12 Ultimate.
I have seen pretty much each of their plugin iterations going their way and partially it has been more than just dissapointing. In case of Battery 3 vs. Battery 4, I would even say it's a straight offence of my intelligence trying to offer that POS as an update (and yes, I can easily back up that statement, should you wish...)
Then add to this that all 3 hardware devices are rendered useless.
In a nutshell, I have every single right to complain about how NI treated me as a loyal customer.

So, what about you? What are you doing here?

Indeed the downgrade from Battery 3 to Battery 4 was an indicator to me that NI had decided on a sales path that pretty much veered away from their instruments (except Machine, Reaktor, and Kontack) to focus on selling soundsets and presets. Also the fact there were no new acoustic kits for Battery 4was telling. These were signs of what direction NI was is/was heading.

Vertion · Post by **Vertion** » Sat Mar 14, 2020 11:48 pm

IMO: The primary focus here is the ability to continually use the products you purchase. Software lockouts infuriate customers.

Most of these software products emulate real-world physical products, and the mentality of the buyer is similar to that of buying physical products. They feel if they buy, they own, and to take away ability to use is a kind of theft. They can preach technicalities and legal trickery, but it will only alienate their customers.

Whether or not the products are of quality is subjective. Demos are intended to remove the excuse of buyer’s remorse and compatibility issues before purchase.

digitalboytn · Post by **digitalboytn** » Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:12 am

I must be one of the few people around here who appreciates B4...

It was an unexpected surprise and I find the new features very helpful...

But I don't use it for drums...just percussion and a few other hits...

Battery is such a great program for that sort of thing and being based on the Kontakt engine,you get a lot of those top quality filters,comps and effects which really help to shape the sounds...

Battery is a winner and it's an essential tool for me

Meffy · Post by **Meffy** » Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:35 am

I'm a B4 fan too. One of the first VSTis I bought.

Oh, wait — I was thinking you meant the Hammond tonewheel organ emulation, until I kept reading. I've got Komplete 11 but haven't found occasion to use Battery 4. Never used previous Battery versions either, generally I reach for BFD or Guru/Geist or Addictive Drums or Jamstix, depending on the project. In the 32-bit days DR-008 was my constant companion.

digitalboytn · Post by **digitalboytn** » Sun Mar 15, 2020 1:58 am

NI's B4 II was the last x86 plugin I was using and that was a beauty...

So much better than all of the sampled crap they started pushing people to use in Kontakt...

Then one fine day,Blue 3 v2 appeared and kicked it off the bandstand...

My x86 days were over...

Well apart from Sony's ACID Pro 7 and Sound Forge 10 that is....

You really should check out Battery 4 Meffy...

It's fully charged and good to go

NI have announced they will no longer activate discontinued products