Very helpful. Thanks!GaryG wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:01 pmThere's a comparison chart here: https://www.xils-lab.com/products/xils-3-le-p-151.html
Pretty similar but poly seq in LE version, CM version can't be used as an effect plugin etc.
Xils 3 LE : The EMS VCS3 (Synthi) Emulation (On sale 9.9€)
- KVRian
- 937 posts since 31 May, 2017
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- KVRian
- 642 posts since 28 Oct, 2014
Pin matrix is on/off in the version I'm running, not a variable control, if that's what you're referring to?gentleclockdivider wrote: ↑Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:24 pmO.K. this seems to be a bug in 2.5.2onerob wrote: ↑Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:08 pm I bought this a few years ago when they had a similar offer. I've just loaded it and the extended matrix is appearing. Looking at the website, a new beta was released yesterday and made available in the download section. Maybe it's a new bug? The version I'm using is pretty recent.
And what about modulation amount ?
Not possible in 2.0.3
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gentleclockdivider gentleclockdivider https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=203660
- KVRAF
- 6098 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent
Nopes , no mod scaling I assume that's reserved for the full xils 3 ( the orignal vcs didn't have that either )Lotuzia wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:41 amGreat Any additionnal info about mod scaling ?gentleclockdivider wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:28 am Bugs fixed within a few hours
kudos to xils labs
I do find a lot of nasty bugs , creating certain feedback loops ( filter ---- env , and env sign. into filter crashes the audio engine of xils , result total silence .
Maybe adding a hardd clipper at the output stage from preventing this would be nice
Also , the mult.4 for the 12 db filter behaves verry weird when modulated by the env . ( in the previoius version the mul.4 for 12 db filter did nothing at all )
ANyway I love the sound of it .
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gentleclockdivider gentleclockdivider https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=203660
- KVRAF
- 6098 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent
They are tunable in octave , semitone ...what do you mean exactly ?resistent wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:46 pm The only real fault is that the oscillators are not tuneable like in a real VCS3 plus the lack of control the intensity of the mod target makes this a missed opportunity synth. It's not well emulated. Soundwise it's nice but the usability is a mess. But maybe for 9€ some people will have their fun.
Not sure if this is a bug or not , but osc 3 is always 2 octaves lower compared to osc 1/2 ( even when pitch readout is the same )
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- KVRAF
- 2802 posts since 31 Aug, 2011
Thats exactly the problem. On the real VCS3 the pitch dials are continuous from 1 Hz to 10KHz, (i.e. no stepping), much like the pitch sliders on an ARP 2600.gentleclockdivider wrote: They are tunable in octave , semitone ...
And yes, there are many things that deviate from the real machine. I won the synth a few years ago in a guessing game and spent a lot of time checking it out and reporting all the errors i found using the original VCS3 manual as a reference. Some of the more low-priority stuff was quickly fixed back then, (typos and spelling and such), but unfortunately the real important stuff never was, and from what i have been told never will either, because they believe it to be more important not to break existing presets than making the actual emulation accurate where it isnt right now. This is especially unfortunate with regard to the oscillators and their waveforms, because right now there is no way to make certain sounds that can be made with the real machine. Of course should their attitude ever change i would still be willing to help every way i can because the sound of the synth is very much to my liking. (It has a nice 'rawness' that a lot of other analog emulations dont have, or at least not quite in the same way.)
- KVRian
- 1172 posts since 25 Jan, 2017
I agree that's much cooler to work with, and gladly it was recently introduced for the full versions of XILS 3 and 4. Since it was added I always leave it on continuous mode.
I don't know about the readouts beacuse I like to have them off on any vintage emulation, if possible.gentleclockdivider wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:05 pm Not sure if this is a bug or not , but osc 3 is always 2 octaves lower compared to osc 1/2 (even when pitch readout is the same)
But the 3rd oscillator being tuned lower than the other two is normal (and actually it's more like 4-5 octaves on XILS4 and the SynthiV IIRC), and that comes from the hardware, which used the 3rd osc primarily as an LFO.
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 10260 posts since 19 Feb, 2004 from Paris
Plus you have 5 pin matrix in LE instead of 2 in CM version + trigg settings. More patch points (nodes), and more presets. The upgrade path to Xils3/4 will also be different of course.Local Man wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 3:20 pmVery helpful. Thanks!GaryG wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 1:01 pmThere's a comparison chart here: https://www.xils-lab.com/products/xils-3-le-p-151.html
Pretty similar but poly seq in LE version, CM version can't be used as an effect plugin etc.
http://www.lelotusbleu.fr Synth Presets
77 Exclusive Soundbanks for 23 synths, 8 Sound Designers, Hours of audio Demos. The Sound you miss might be there
77 Exclusive Soundbanks for 23 synths, 8 Sound Designers, Hours of audio Demos. The Sound you miss might be there
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 10260 posts since 19 Feb, 2004 from Paris
Yes, Xils editor unfortunately made a mistake in the newsletter. Intensity can of course be precisely defined with the output level of important modules (like trapezoidal evs etc) but matrix pins are fixed in LE.onerob wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 4:54 pmPin matrix is on/off in the version I'm running, not a variable control, if that's what you're referring to?gentleclockdivider wrote: ↑Sun Mar 22, 2020 7:24 pmO.K. this seems to be a bug in 2.5.2onerob wrote: ↑Sun Mar 22, 2020 5:08 pm I bought this a few years ago when they had a similar offer. I've just loaded it and the extended matrix is appearing. Looking at the website, a new beta was released yesterday and made available in the download section. Maybe it's a new bug? The version I'm using is pretty recent.
And what about modulation amount ?
Not possible in 2.0.3
http://www.lelotusbleu.fr Synth Presets
77 Exclusive Soundbanks for 23 synths, 8 Sound Designers, Hours of audio Demos. The Sound you miss might be there
77 Exclusive Soundbanks for 23 synths, 8 Sound Designers, Hours of audio Demos. The Sound you miss might be there
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- KVRAF
- Topic Starter
- 10260 posts since 19 Feb, 2004 from Paris
Like Nowiad said.Niowiad wrote: ↑Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:26 pmI agree that's much cooler to work with, and gladly it was recently introduced for the full versions of XILS 3 and 4. Since it was added I always leave it on continuous mode.
I don't know about the readouts beacuse I like to have them off on any vintage emulation, if possible.gentleclockdivider wrote: ↑Mon Mar 23, 2020 5:05 pm Not sure if this is a bug or not , but osc 3 is always 2 octaves lower compared to osc 1/2 (even when pitch readout is the same)
But the 3rd oscillator being tuned lower than the other two is normal (and actually it's more like 4-5 octaves on XILS4 and the SynthiV IIRC), and that comes from the hardware, which used the 3rd osc primarily as an LFO.
1/ For oscillators, the main problem, Sine wavewhaping, was totally fixed in 2014 with the release of the Xils v2.0. Backward compatibility with presets was preserved with an internal tagging system, switching the engines when necessary.
2/ For the continuous control of oscillators frequency mode, it was implemented in 2018.
Filter behaviour has always evolved, with important steps in 2014, 2018. While always preserving preset compatibility. Xils x family synthesizers also have zdf filters since the beginning.
Regarding the 18db 3 pole filter, i.e the original filter type in the EMS, yes it is a bit raw Like it should be. Same for the oscillators, I had the chance to compare two vcs3 a lonnngggg time ago (from my step father at that time) : One was 'as polite as possible for a vcs 3', and the second one was as wild as it can be. Same looking units, different sound, i think I never saw this with other synthesizer models since that time/
OSC 3 : Was intended to act as LFO in the Synthi. (In the Xils 3 LE, every osc can behave as such).
Afaics, almost all xils units evolve more/less deeply over time. I think : For the better.
----------_________
Also now in the Xils 3 LE according to Xils (and compared to CM version) :
* New preset manager : Multicriteria search etc.
* Catalina compatibility.
http://www.lelotusbleu.fr Synth Presets
77 Exclusive Soundbanks for 23 synths, 8 Sound Designers, Hours of audio Demos. The Sound you miss might be there
77 Exclusive Soundbanks for 23 synths, 8 Sound Designers, Hours of audio Demos. The Sound you miss might be there
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- KVRAF
- 2802 posts since 31 Aug, 2011
OK, just so that we are clear on what i was talking about.
(Since i was semi-contradicted.)
I have downloaded the latest version (2.5.2 Beta) and the following inaccuracies still remain as reported many years ago:
- According to the VCS3 manual the Ramp (Osc1) is not supposed to be shapeable. Only the Sine is. Since XILS 3.2 LE does shape the Ramp as well, it will be 1 octave higher than the Sine when the Shape knob is centered. It is therefore impossible to have a pure (unshaped) Sine at the same freq/pitch as the Ramp, unlike the real machine, where this cannot happen.
- The waveform of the shaped Sine (Shape knob turned fully left or right) is way too soft. According to the VCS3 manual the 'pinched' ends should be almost as sharp as a Triangle.
- The Triangles do not produce a true Ramp/Saw with the Shape knob turned fully left or right. (Compare sound with the Ramp of Osc1.) According to the VCS3 manual you should get a Triangle at center, a regular Ramp fully left and a regular Saw fully right.
- The Squares/Pulses are too wide at their minimums. According to the VCS3 manual they should become completely silent, i.e. a steady DC, with the Shape knob turned fully left or right.
I have a large list of other stuff i would need to re-check against the previous version, but im not really in the mood right now, so for now i will just leave it at that. Like i said, i had reported this stuff (and more) a long time ago but was told that changing it now (after the fact) would break existing presets and thats considered a nono.
(Since i was semi-contradicted.)
I have downloaded the latest version (2.5.2 Beta) and the following inaccuracies still remain as reported many years ago:
- According to the VCS3 manual the Ramp (Osc1) is not supposed to be shapeable. Only the Sine is. Since XILS 3.2 LE does shape the Ramp as well, it will be 1 octave higher than the Sine when the Shape knob is centered. It is therefore impossible to have a pure (unshaped) Sine at the same freq/pitch as the Ramp, unlike the real machine, where this cannot happen.
- The waveform of the shaped Sine (Shape knob turned fully left or right) is way too soft. According to the VCS3 manual the 'pinched' ends should be almost as sharp as a Triangle.
- The Triangles do not produce a true Ramp/Saw with the Shape knob turned fully left or right. (Compare sound with the Ramp of Osc1.) According to the VCS3 manual you should get a Triangle at center, a regular Ramp fully left and a regular Saw fully right.
- The Squares/Pulses are too wide at their minimums. According to the VCS3 manual they should become completely silent, i.e. a steady DC, with the Shape knob turned fully left or right.
I have a large list of other stuff i would need to re-check against the previous version, but im not really in the mood right now, so for now i will just leave it at that. Like i said, i had reported this stuff (and more) a long time ago but was told that changing it now (after the fact) would break existing presets and thats considered a nono.
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gentleclockdivider gentleclockdivider https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=203660
- KVRAF
- 6098 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent
I think I found another bug , when modulating the filter frequency of the 18db filter ( set to 4* ) with a decaying envelope , there is hardly any filter modulation going on ( be it with the adsr or enve.shaper r ) .
It goes from peak to sustain , with no decaying , switching to the other filter types behaves correctly .
I have send it to bug report .
All in all I like the sound verry much , as most xils lab products , reason why I went for this one is because it's just a simple serial , I tend to avoid ilok and pace stuff .
I hope xils considers the serial nr. approach to some of their more expensive products ( which is the only reason why I haven't bought stixx )
It goes from peak to sustain , with no decaying , switching to the other filter types behaves correctly .
I have send it to bug report .
All in all I like the sound verry much , as most xils lab products , reason why I went for this one is because it's just a simple serial , I tend to avoid ilok and pace stuff .
I hope xils considers the serial nr. approach to some of their more expensive products ( which is the only reason why I haven't bought stixx )
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Soul calibrating ..frequencies
Soul calibrating ..frequencies
- KVRAF
- 25386 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds
Same reason I have not bought any Xils stuff...gentleclockdivider wrote: ↑Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:14 pm All in all I like the sound verry much , as most xils lab products , reason why I went for this one is because it's just a simple serial , I tend to avoid ilok and pace stuff .
I hope xils considers the serial nr. approach to some of their more expensive products ( which is the only reason why I haven't bought stixx )
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gentleclockdivider gentleclockdivider https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=203660
- KVRAF
- 6098 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent
BUt it's (currently ) for sale for 20 euros and sound great
Here's the bug when setting filter to 12 db ( and multiplied by 4 )
First you hear the 24db filter , then the 18 db ,and lastly the 12 db fiter
Notice the absence of modulation with the 12 db filter ( no deacaying filter sweep )
https://app.box.com/s/t4qedg07opq3cvp9fl77o0sd3nvbqwdx
Here's the bug when setting filter to 12 db ( and multiplied by 4 )
First you hear the 24db filter , then the 18 db ,and lastly the 12 db fiter
Notice the absence of modulation with the 12 db filter ( no deacaying filter sweep )
https://app.box.com/s/t4qedg07opq3cvp9fl77o0sd3nvbqwdx
Eyeball exchanging
Soul calibrating ..frequencies
Soul calibrating ..frequencies
- KVRAF
- 2162 posts since 10 Mar, 2006
Xils is wise to keep X3 and X4 up to date and their fans happy, squashing the bugs reported by users, as the hardware original is hard to get, and the software allows for many more options.
"The educated person is one who knows how to find out what he does not know" - George Simmel
“It's what you learn after you know it all that counts.” - John Wooden
“It's what you learn after you know it all that counts.” - John Wooden
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gentleclockdivider gentleclockdivider https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=203660
- KVRAF
- 6098 posts since 22 Mar, 2009 from gent
Extended matrix bug still present in the fx version
I copied/pasted the (bugfixed ) regular vst.dll and added the fx extension , but it's still recognized as an instrument
So this one lies in their camp ( again )
I copied/pasted the (bugfixed ) regular vst.dll and added the fx extension , but it's still recognized as an instrument
So this one lies in their camp ( again )
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Soul calibrating ..frequencies
Soul calibrating ..frequencies