Failed purchase and loss of money

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Ghostwave
KVRAF
1585 posts since 1 Mar, 2010 from Paris

Post Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:55 am

The problem is complex but the answer is actually very simple.

First off, PayPal don't refund fees to the seller on refunded purchases. This started last year and is a big deal. So when someone sends you money and you refund them with the refund option, you send back the original amount of money but don't get the original transaction's fee back.
Then, if you changed currency from EUR to GPB; the amount in EUR you get back equals the GBP rate at the time of refund.

For example's sake, let's say you sent 100 EUR which equalled to £90. The seller received something like £85.
When he refunds you, the seller will be charged £90 (so £5 loss for him) and you will receive the equivalent of £90 in your account. It might be over 100 EUR or below depending on the rate that day.

You should not accept a separate transfer of £85 pounds as refund. Request the seller to use the refund option. Selling stuff is his responsability and his alone.
ghostwaveaudio.com | soundsets for Synplant, Sylenth1, Diva and more

decano
KVRist
53 posts since 4 Apr, 2016

Re: Failed purchase and loss of money

Post Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:30 am

Well, after a series of conversations with the seller, we came to the following conclusion:

- He does not bear the extra costs, because he exactly reimbursed the money he received, and he ensures that the two of us have lost money due to currency changes.
- He accepts I am not to blame for the license transfer being canceled, but according to him he is not to blame for the charges that PayPal made. Nothing about why he didn't secure the sell. He says he didn't know he couldn't sell the product.
- He assumes that everything has been a mess but that even so, he is not responsible for the extra expenses derived from the cancellation of the license transfer (the software company has blocked all possible transfers from his user account...).
- And finally, he insist that he is not responsible for extra expenses, and closes the conversation by saying that he will no longer respond to my messages on this case.


And now, I'm going to hear something from Vangelis to regain mental well-being.

chk071
KVRAF
23219 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany

Re: Failed purchase and loss of money

Post Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:44 am

Who, if not him is responsible for the failed transaction.

Some people...

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kidslow
KVRist
137 posts since 26 Aug, 2019

Re: Failed purchase and loss of money

Post Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:59 am

decano wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:30 am
Well, after a series of conversations with the seller, we came to the following conclusion:

- He does not bear the extra costs, because he exactly reimbursed the money he received, and he ensures that the two of us have lost money due to currency changes.
- He accepts I am not to blame for the license transfer being canceled, but according to him he is not to blame for the charges that PayPal made. Nothing about why he didn't secure the sell. He says he didn't know he couldn't sell the product.
- He assumes that everything has been a mess but that even so, he is not responsible for the extra expenses derived from the cancellation of the license transfer (the software company has blocked all possible transfers from his user account...).
- And finally, he insist that he is not responsible for extra expenses, and closes the conversation by saying that he will no longer respond to my messages on this case.


And now, I'm going to hear something from Vangelis to regain mental well-being.
Hi Decano, please share the name of this seller so the rest of us can make an informed decision whether to do business with this person. Maybe ask him first. If he is so certain about his position it should be acceptable. If he says no, then that tells us he knows he's on the wrong side. He is responsible for paypal's fees because he misrepresented his ability to fulfill the license transfer. My guess is that even if the seller is reading this thread he is probably too lame to out himself.

machinesworking
KVRAF
2169 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Re: Failed purchase and loss of money

Post Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:23 pm

decano wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:30 am
He says he didn't know he couldn't sell the product.
I think at this point you're really putting a strain on the rest of us by not naming him.
If the quote is true, then this person is human garbage, and I don't want to get caught doing business with thieves, whether intentional or not.

agharta
KVRian
527 posts since 10 Jan, 2018

Re: Failed purchase and loss of money

Post Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:35 pm

Please say who the vendor is that refused the transfer.
I'd list the details in the feedback thread in a calm way as there's no need to indulge in calling people a thief etc as some have done.
We can make our own mind up.

decano
KVRist
53 posts since 4 Apr, 2016

Re: Failed purchase and loss of money

Post Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:05 pm

Yes, I have written a post in the "Feedback Post" explaining this whole case.
My original idea was not to reveal his identity, but right now I just hope it doesn't happen to any other user. It is a very disappointing situation. I am sorry that this had to come to this point.

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kidslow
KVRist
137 posts since 26 Aug, 2019

Re: Failed purchase and loss of money

Post Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:39 pm

Thank you for sharing.

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plexuss
KVRAF
3653 posts since 8 Jul, 2009

Re: Failed purchase and loss of money

Post Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:46 pm

I guess I have a different approach to this. First of all, personal 2nd hand sales are not B2C. As such there is more risk. Both parties by entering into the transaction accept all the risks. This currency exchange things is one of those risks. If the buyer refunds the seller the same amount as was paid in the same currency paid, then that is enough. If somehow the buyer loses money because of exchange rates, that is not the problem of the seller, nor are the losses to the seller of concern to the buyer. Unless of course you agree otherwise upfront. It's not complicated.

machinesworking
KVRAF
2169 posts since 15 Aug, 2003 from seattle

Re: Failed purchase and loss of money

Post Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:29 pm

plexuss wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 6:46 pm
I guess I have a different approach to this. First of all, personal 2nd hand sales are not B2C. As such there is more risk. Both parties by entering into the transaction accept all the risks. This currency exchange things is one of those risks. If the buyer refunds the seller the same amount as was paid in the same currency paid, then that is enough. If somehow the buyer loses money because of exchange rates, that is not the problem of the seller, nor are the losses to the seller of concern to the buyer. Unless of course you agree otherwise upfront. It's not complicated.
Here's where it is complicated, the seller in this case never even bothered to check if he could sell the item in question. It sounds like it was him trying to sell an older version of his software, since he upgraded to a new version.... but regardless of the reason, the onus was on the seller to have an item for sale, that he could legitimately sell. He did not. It's total BS on the sellers part, that's all. He falsely advertised something for sale he could not sell.

musicdoc
KVRist
187 posts since 8 May, 2010 from US-Washington

Re: Failed purchase and loss of money

Post Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:38 pm

I’d be happy that the seller at least refunded most of the money, at least all that he got. If he didn’t, what recourse would you have? This is the risk we run when not using a service like eBay. Still, in the end, buying at KVR used over the years beats buying new or eBay prices. Accept the small loss and move on. Not worth expending the mental energy.

Could it have been handled better - certainly but I can see both points of view. Life’s too short.

agharta
KVRian
527 posts since 10 Jan, 2018

Re: Failed purchase and loss of money

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 5:04 am

musicdoc wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:38 pm
This is the risk we run when not using a service like eBay.
Even with eBay, if you refund in full via PayPal and there are currency losses I don't think eBay can do anything as they see a full refund.
Sure you can leave negative feedback but you can do that here also.
Last edited by agharta on Thu Mar 26, 2020 8:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

quietzone
KVRist
306 posts since 19 Jun, 2019

Re: Failed purchase and loss of money

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:01 am

Thanks for sharing the seller's name on the feedback thread.

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mgw38
KVRAF
2239 posts since 26 Jul, 2015 from Philadelphia

Re: Failed purchase and loss of money

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:17 am

I think it has been said multiple times before, but the sale was made in GBP. The seller asked for 231 GBP and when the transfer fell through he refunded 231 GBP. This is exactly how it is supposed to be done.

In these second hand transactions you agree on both a sales price and a currency and whoever needs to convert their home currency will therefore take the risk of currency fluctuations. This is why quite a few people around here keep separate PayPal sub-accounts for different currencies.

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Etienne1973
KVRian
658 posts since 8 Feb, 2013 from Switzerland

Re: Failed purchase and loss of money

Post Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:28 am

mgw38 wrote:
Thu Mar 26, 2020 6:17 am
This is why quite a few people around here keep separate PayPal sub-accounts for different currencies.
Possible via PayPal to refund w/o currency change?

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