My Questions about making music

[jethrobull]

I am doing my best. It can take years before I master it, you all said it yourself.

Doing your best is one part of the equation. If your intention were to cycle from the East coast to the West coast, but you start travelling North, then it wouldn't matter how good you were cycling...you'd never end up where you wanted to be.

Mastering is the last 3%. It's the polishing, the finessing; It's the pretty bow on top of the gift. By the time you get to the mastering stage your mix should sound like it doesn't even really need mastering. It might just need some tightening of the bass dynamics (By a hair's breadth), or to be a little wider. And would obviously need limiting, to bring it up to current standards. That's it.

If you are spending hours on the last stage, then your mix is broken. And if you went to a professional mastering engineer they would likely send you away with certain instructions of what you'd need to do to the mix, to bring it to the stage where they can effectively do their job properly.

You need to start with learning your tools, thoroughly, and then learn/practice mixing. That's the part we've all been trying to tell you takes the real dedication, effort and time.

More very good advice

[GRUMP]

I solely use the plugins from Digital slate since they are in my sub I have... In the tutorial they also used those plugins...
I do not know if they have frequency balancing.

I have encountered the problem you speak of I think, the music being to deep (as in to low, like a blanket was put over it or like they were recorded under water) I never heared that problem untill I started to mix and master myself. Then the songs became a lot clearder.
I do not know if that is the problem you speak of of course, but if it is, that problem should be fixed with my newer productions. Take a listen in the My Ideas topic in music cafe, it contains two tracks I mixed and mastered myself. I understand I still need to learn a lot about it, but maybe the problem you speak of is not there?

I am now trying to finish a new track but tried all day yesterday already to master it and I tried so long and hard that at the end I had to stop because I could not hear anymore if it was good or bad lol. Trying to finish it now, after a good night of sleep.

A problem that occured was that my VBC (compressor) liked to make the beginning loud and when the drums kicked in the lowered the volume.
I found a solution to that by filtering the drum with a pass (high or low I do not know out of my head and to lazy to go see) so that the kick was always there but just the click. This seemed to solve the problem of my volume going down after kick dropped in.

LoL. Same here. I frequently rediscover V1 after some Days. Mixing and Sound Design are often treacherous...

Long Story and surely a Question of Experience and Mindset. The right Philosophy. Don't know. But never underestimate the Power of the dark Side

I'm learning all the Time. Yesterday I came back to the Emu Emax Sounds I Downloaded some Time ago - and there it was again... Lots of Mono 12 Bit Samples, two per Octave... Imperfection - but just right for my ears...

Many well known Fellows btw - Depeche, P. Gabriel and many more. And just a puny Oneshot Sample!?

Will listen in later on - have a break now

[Heavenly Sounds]

"Mastering" is not just inserting a compressor & limiter into the master bus. It's a separate form of art requiring other skills & equipment.

Concentrate on one thing, so for now it's better to don't do any mastering at all.

I am mastering for two days now. I do not just put a compressor and a limiter in. I play with them. I also put in other plugins like a filter for the low sounds you can not hear but are there, then an EQ, then a tapemachine, then the virtual buss compressor, then a virtual mix rack with diverse plugins, a limiter and then the FX G mastering tool. All plugins are in Digital slate bundle.
I do not just put them in, I play with them. Putting them just in on presets does not take two days. And those days are filled with 8 hours of mastering. So now I am at the 3rd day and another 6 hours of mastering.
So you all suggest to drop the mastering? Why? Let me play with it and if it does not work out then I can always go back. But for now (while I am hating the process) I want to do it. I am sure this will not be good because you all suggest dropping it, but how can you learn something if you just drop it because you do not understand it.
So I do not understand once again, first I need to learn, then I need to drop that which I need to learn.
I do not need to learn how to make music, I can do that. I do not need to learn how to put everything under -6 db. I can do that.

I do not EQ a lot on the tracks, I just do what Wagtunes suggested, put a pass around 30 hz. I do a smiley in the master buss in EQ and give it a bit of air, but thats all about it.

You are not gonna tell me you do not hear the difference in the newer tracks, I hear it very good and I do not want to go back. My previous tracks sounded muddy, as many said and it sounded to me as if they were recorded under water.

Now you all finally got me to the stage that I hear that, now you want me to go back.

Oh boy... I am sorry, yes I do not understand. The problem lays with me.

Still gonna play around with the mastering process, even if it takes years to understand. I am not gonna put it aside just because you people think I just slam a compressor and a limiter on and thats it. I do not do that. I watched tutorials remember.
But the configuration is NOT the same for each track, so you still have to play with it. I will play with it and with trial and error I will come to an understanding about it. I am not gonna ask questions here anymore because then people say I barely know how to start my DAW and other people say then that I expect to much of your efforts and time. So I won't do that anymore.

So I will just continue how I am going on now. I am sure you all will not like it because you all advice to go back to the muddy tracks which I think I left behind after you all said I needed to make them less muddy.

Thank you for the advice but I wish you would see how you people are contradicting yourself the whole time. Just to give advice, just to criticize. I am sure you did not even listen to my songs yet, there are no comments there. No help to improve there. No, the help is here in telling me to stop mastering and go back to the muddy songs you all despised.

Another thing I was thinking about earlier was this: It seems like every forum, or person, goes into the extreme: or they always say its good, or they always criticize. It is never in the middle. It is good to give advice (and here comes my advice to you all) but it is also good to have a balance.

I work long on a song, I am busy now for the 3rd day on a track, days of 7-8 hours. To always have to hear the bad about it is not fun then, I understand it is needed but it is in my opinion also needed that there is a balance. That people sometimes also say what they like. I have a friend and she always tells me my songs are good. Thats not good either because there needs to be a balance. But it seems people are creatures of the extreme, or it is bad, or it is good.

If you think that working for over 24 hours on a song and then solely have to hear what is bad about it is a good thing to do, then that is your right. I on the other hand sit at the receiving end and its not so fun.

Maybe you all could work on that and I will work on compressor

[Heavenly Sounds]

I am doing my best. It can take years before I master it, you all said it yourself.

Doing your best is one part of the equation. If your intention were to cycle from the East coast to the West coast, but you start travelling North, then it wouldn't matter how good you were cycling (doing your best), you'd never end up at your destination.

Mastering is the last 3%. It's the polishing, the finessing; It's the pretty bow on top of the gift. By the time you get to the mastering stage your mix should sound like it doesn't even really need mastering. It might just need some tightening of the bass dynamics (By a hair's breadth), or to be a little wider. And would obviously need limiting, to bring it up to current standards. That's it.

If you are spending hours on the last stage, then your mix is broken. And if you went to a professional mastering engineer they would likely send you away with certain instructions of what you'd need to do to the mix, to bring it to the stage where they can effectively do their job properly.

You need to start with learning your tools, thoroughly, and then learn/practice mixing. That's the part we've all been trying to tell you takes the real dedication, effort and time.

My mix always does sound like that too be honest, but its nice to have the fullness of the song. Many times I do what you say: break the mix in thousand pieces and it sounds even worse then without the mastering process.
The thing is if I start in the north then I can practice a lot and on a day I will understand, hey I am in the north.
Then I will go to the west and I will have practiced a lot already and know what I need to do.

[Heavenly Sounds]

I want to do this okay. I understand it is not what you all like but may I actually still choose to take the advice or not? I sometimes feel that if I do not take the advice you all get mad at me. It feels like I do not really have a choice. I do not really like that.
I give advice too in other forums and if they do not accept it I do not get mad. They thank me and say: I am not really into that but thank you for your advice.
I do not rage then and get mad as many of you do, I just say your welcome!

That is how you need to give advice. Give them a choice. And if they choose to go a different path just let them go. And next time they ask advice you can give it again.

No need to get mad when people do not do what you want them to do, we all got a free will right?

[Heavenly Sounds]

Let us come to this deal. Listen to my two latest track and if they are very bad mastered (and please be honest about it) I will drop the mastering.

If they do not sound that bad actually, then I go on from the north? Okay?

[Heavenly Sounds]

Ok I will listen to you all once again and drop the mastering.

[GRUMP]

Just listened in at Soundcloud. Via Smartphone. But anyway - present, punchy colourful.

May it be that you should just be a little bit patient? And not underestimate others Experience, different Tools and the Power of a real Mixing Engineer?

Take Time. Listen closely. Read. And maybe check different Tools out to get a Feeling for possibilities, Strengths and Weaknesses.

I underestimated the differences between Gear for too long - until I discovered bx, Softube, Dune3 and so forth. Today my Toolbox is very colourful and spread across the whole Market. I mean Korg is Korg and doesn't sound like Roland. And we'll all never ever sound like MJ or maybe Metallica

And by the Way ... why so some e.g. comps cost 10k bucks and how should SD ever compete? Don't you maybe expect too much? And don't forget to ask yourself how the Inventors Made "Trance" 30 yes ago

[Heavenly Sounds]

Yes thats why I am gonna drop the mastering

[Passing Bye]

I sometimes feel that if I do not take the advice you all get mad at me. It feels like I do not really have a choice. I do not really like that.
I give advice too in other forums and if they do not accept it I do not get mad. They thank me and say: I am not really into that but thank you for your advice.
I do not rage then and get mad as many of you do, I just say your welcome!

That is how you need to give advice. Give them a choice. And if they choose to go a different path just let them go. And next time they ask advice you can give it again.

No need to get mad when people do not do what you want them to do, we all got a free will right?

Your feelings are completely false, nobody got mad because of that, you kept alienating people around you with your emotional breakdowns, because you got into your head that we have some expectations from you and etc, but it was you all along, we advised you to take it slowly, but you had a public breakdown whenever things didn't go as you expected and we didn't gave you support that you expected, some of your words were slap in the face and in the end of the day, I don't need that at all, I have full day job, sick wife and little time for music making, don't want to waste that precious little time on someone who after everything thinks that I'm jealous of him because he's more creative than me, glad you found those headphones great, enjoy in them. Bye

[Heavenly Sounds]

Yea bye. I tell how I feel and I get shot down again.
Bye

[BertKoor]

So now I am at the 3rd day and another 6 hours of mastering.
So you all suggest to drop the mastering? Why?

Because you wasted days! You could have spent that time better learning something else.

Mastering is the least important phase of music production. If you were a painter instead of musician, then mastering is like the layer of shiny protective varnish and putting a frame around the picture. It does not really change or improve the picture. Better learn to draw & paint, make a lot of drawings & paintings. Time spent on vanishing & framing is lost time because it was not spent on drawing & painting. You can always do that later.

[Heavenly Sounds]

So now I am at the 3rd day and another 6 hours of mastering.
So you all suggest to drop the mastering? Why?

Because you wasted days! You could have spent that time better learning something else.

Mastering is the least important phase of music production. If you were a painter instead of musician, then mastering is like the layer of shiny protective varnish and putting a frame around the picture. It does not really change or improve the picture. Better learn to draw & paint, make a lot of drawings & paintings. Time spent on vanishing & framing is lost time because it was not spent on drawing & painting. You can always do that later.

ok

[GRUMP]

I am doing my best. It can take years before I master it, you all said it yourself.

I don´t want to sell sth. here ... but PluginAlliance is just running a Sale and Pro Audio DSM V3 is a really handy "all in one" Mastering Tool that is available for a fair Price at the Moment and even less if you can get one of these 25$ Vouchers they just sent out...

[Heavenly Sounds]

I am doing my best. It can take years before I master it, you all said it yourself.

I don´t want to sell sth. here ... but PluginAlliance is just running a Sale and Pro Audio DSM V3 is a really handy "all in one" Mastering Tool that is available for a fair Price at the Moment and even less if you can get one of these 25$ Vouchers they just sent out...

Did you ever use it? It would be 25€ for me with the voucher so that is not a bad price.