User error: do you refund?

DSP, Plug-in and Host development discussion.
User avatar
ATS
KVRAF
6629 posts since 21 Dec, 2002 from MD USA

Post Wed Mar 25, 2020 1:14 am

rasmusklump wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:25 am
Note to myself: Do not use plugins by Youlean and don't support him if he once makes a commercial one.
if it's to yourself why did you post it here?
my music: https://www.soundclick.com/alexcooper
"It's hard to be humble, when you're as great as I am." Muhammad Ali

User avatar
Youlean
KVRist
381 posts since 11 May, 2016 from Serbia

Re: User error: do you refund?

Post Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:22 am

rasmusklump wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:25 am
Note to myself: Do not use plugins by Youlean and don't support him if he once makes a commercial one.
Why that?

quikquak
KVRian
686 posts since 6 Aug, 2005 from England

Re: User error: do you refund?

Post Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:13 am

Youlean wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 4:22 am
rasmusklump wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 12:25 am
Note to myself: Do not use plugins by Youlean and don't support him if he once makes a commercial one.
Why that?
What the hell is all that about?

SoftSynthLover99
KVRist
86 posts since 27 Jun, 2019

Re: User error: do you refund?

Post Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:59 am

From a customer point of view, you have consumer rights that allow you a refund in most countries. Such a shame you can return a guitar to a music store within 30 days for a full refund no matter if it’s because you just didn’t like the way it played, but when it comes to software developers some companies make it seem like a crime to ask for a refund.

If you purchase software you are not pleased with, you should be able to return it no problem for whatever reason. It’s actually not even legal to say “all sales final” or “no refunds”.

You can revoke a license pretty easy or deactivate someones license rather easy after a return, so a refund should not be a problem and the user would have no way to continue using the product. Works out for both consumer and developer and nobody loses anything.

SoftSynthLover99
KVRist
86 posts since 27 Jun, 2019

Re: User error: do you refund?

Post Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:06 am

Refunds suck but they are basic human rights and consumer rights. Nobody should have to be stuck with something they don’t want to continue using.

When I see “all sales are final” it usually tells me that who I’m buying from is not really concerned with if I actually like what I’m buying, and/or they are not confident in the product they are selling.

User avatar
audiothing
KVRian
1445 posts since 13 Apr, 2011

Re: User error: do you refund?

Post Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:47 am

SoftSynthLover99 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:59 am
You can revoke a license pretty easy or deactivate someones license rather easy after a return, so a refund should not be a problem and the user would have no way to continue using the product. Works out for both consumer and developer and nobody loses anything.
Not true. You can easily revoke a license only if you use challenge/response or a dongle, but you can't revoke a license if the user authorized with a serial or a keyfile.
The only thing you could do is blacklist that user in a future update, but nothing can stop a fraudulent user to keep running their refunded copy.
SoftSynthLover99 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:59 am
If you purchase software you are not pleased with, you should be able to return it no problem for whatever reason. It’s actually not even legal to say “all sales final” or “no refunds”.
Software can't be treated the same way as goods. In fact, in most countries software (or any digital product) is considered a service: you are actually buying a license. You can't really return a license like you would return a t-shirt to a store.
AudioThing (VST, AU, AAX Plugins)
Instagram | Facebook | Twitter

User avatar
Lind0n
KVRist
127 posts since 2 Feb, 2005 from UK

Re: User error: do you refund?

Post Fri Mar 27, 2020 4:07 am

audiothing wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 10:47 am
SoftSynthLover99 wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:59 am
If you purchase software you are not pleased with, you should be able to return it no problem for whatever reason. It’s actually not even legal to say “all sales final” or “no refunds”.
Software can't be treated the same way as goods. In fact, in most countries software (or any digital product) is considered a service: you are actually buying a license. You can't really return a license like you would return a t-shirt to a store.
AT is right, in most cases (if the developer has got the EULA correct) you are not actually "buying" the software, you are buying a license to run the software, and the rules about license vs purchases may well be different in different countries. As a developer who uses serial numbers with no calling-home then there is no way I can "easily revoke" the license, so this is a thorny area...
VST/AU Developer for Hire

User avatar
binaryoblivion
KVRist
49 posts since 18 Feb, 2016

Re: User error: do you refund?

Post Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:57 pm

Not sure if it's been mentioned already, but offering a demo version offers some protection against users claiming that the software didn't work on their system. Of course it still relies on the user downloading and testing the demo, rather than just impulse purchasing a license.
Oblivion Sound Lab soundsets and audio plugins

quikquak
KVRian
686 posts since 6 Aug, 2005 from England

Re: User error: do you refund?

Post Wed Apr 08, 2020 10:50 pm

binaryoblivion wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:57 pm
Not sure if it's been mentioned already, but offering a demo version offers some protection against users claiming that the software didn't work on their system. Of course it still relies on the user downloading and testing the demo, rather than just impulse purchasing a license.
It makes me want to make ‘in App purchasing’ a thing rather than a separate store...

User avatar
syntonica
KVRian
590 posts since 25 Sep, 2014 from Specific Northwest

Re: User error: do you refund?

Post Thu Apr 09, 2020 6:37 am

quikquak wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 10:50 pm
binaryoblivion wrote:
Wed Apr 08, 2020 2:57 pm
Not sure if it's been mentioned already, but offering a demo version offers some protection against users claiming that the software didn't work on their system. Of course it still relies on the user downloading and testing the demo, rather than just impulse purchasing a license.
It makes me want to make ‘in App purchasing’ a thing rather than a separate store...
That's kind of a cool idea! However, I don't think imbedding the sales process in the demo is any good because you may need to switch processors.

However, Make people download the demo and provide a purchase link in the menu to take them to the store and have this the only way to purchase. Or, offer a small discount of 5-10% by following this path. This would mark those sales from people who have demoed from those who haven't. Even a slightly hobbled plugin that works to a degree, without the nagware, with an upgrade option could work.

quikquak
KVRian
686 posts since 6 Aug, 2005 from England

Re: User error: do you refund?

Post Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:38 am

Interesting. What do you mean by "switch processors" ? Do you have any experience in this, and why is that a problem?

User avatar
syntonica
KVRian
590 posts since 25 Sep, 2014 from Specific Northwest

Re: User error: do you refund?

Post Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:32 pm

quikquak wrote:
Thu Apr 09, 2020 8:38 am
Interesting. What do you mean by "switch processors" ? Do you have any experience in this, and why is that a problem?
That should have been "switch credit card processors". Sorry. I just meant that it could be a pain.

User avatar
Aleksey Vaneev
KVRAF
3670 posts since 7 Sep, 2002

Re: User error: do you refund?

Post Sun Apr 12, 2020 7:53 am

We refund on any request for any reason. During the whole time (17 years already), this never was more than 1.5% of orders.
Image

User avatar
Vertion
KVRian
676 posts since 29 Oct, 2016

Re: User error: do you refund?

Post Sun Apr 12, 2020 5:32 pm

Aleksey Vaneev wrote:
Sun Apr 12, 2020 7:53 am
We refund on any request for any reason.
:!: :idea: Can I get a refund in advance? hehe
SLH - Yes, I am a woman, deal with it.

Return to “DSP and Plug-in Development”