KVR Audio

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:51 am

Sorry but I cannot agree with that statement at all, in any measure. I've managed to get some crazy good sounds out of Union and, of all the softsynths I've bought over the last 12-18 months, it is probably the one I have found the most use for. I use it more than Hive 2, Pigments, PhasePlant, Synthmaster One, the RePros, Strobe 2 or any of the Korg Legacy synths. I'm not sure what it is but there is something about the sound that just works.

focusrite · Post by **focusrite** » Sat Apr 25, 2020 7:57 am

BONES wrote: ↑Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:51 am Sorry but I cannot agree with that statement at all, in any measure. I've managed to get some crazy good sounds out of Union and, of all the softsynths I've bought over the last 12-18 months, it is probably the one I have found the most use for. I use it more than Hive 2, Pigments, PhasePlant, Synthmaster One, the RePros, Strobe 2 or any of the Korg Legacy synths. I'm not sure what it is but there is something about the sound that just works.

Have you tried Ascension yet?

https://www.waproduction.com/plugins/vi ... on-edition

inkwarp · Post by **inkwarp** » Sat Apr 25, 2020 10:23 pm

Yes, it's a matter of taste.
It does not suit mine. Nearly all those plugs you listed I think are actually better.
Although I've only used Hive and Pigments. Hive I like a lot. it's a great all rounder and it's light on cpu...

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Sun Apr 26, 2020 12:12 am

I used to like and use Hive 1.2 but they have tried to cram too much into Hive 2 and I now find it more hassle than it's worth. I don't think I have used it a song even once since the upgrade. I love using Pigments, the problem is that I find it almost impossible to find any use for it in a mix. I've made heaps of great patches but when I try to actually use them, they never work out. It's quite frustrating. OTOH, every time I grab Union for something, I can get it working in minutes, despite it's annoying workflow and seemingly limited architecture. It is a synth that just works and that's a pretty compelling argument for using it whenever possible.

inkwarp · Post by **inkwarp** » Sun Apr 26, 2020 7:34 pm

well, there are 'bread and butter synths".
I know what you mean about Pigments. Sound is almost too 'exotic'.
I use these often: Surge ( on almost everything), synth1 and sylenth).
I can always get stuff out of them. ( and Z3ta+ which is almost the opposite, i.e. can sound a bit bland on its own but comes alive in a mix)...

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:08 pm

I look at Surge and go "Urgh!" It looks like some 90s shareware, standalone synth from the days before VST. It looks bad enough that I don't even care how it sounds.

AndrewMaze · Post by **AndrewMaze** » Mon Apr 27, 2020 1:31 pm

BONES wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:08 pm I look at Surge and go "Urgh!" It looks like some 90s shareware, standalone synth from the days before VST. It looks bad enough that I don't even care how it sounds.

If you are talking about Vember Surge, I think it's amaizing sounding synth, especially considering that it's open source (i.e. free) now.

DJErmac · Post by **DJErmac** » Mon Apr 27, 2020 2:00 pm

BONES wrote: ↑Sun Apr 26, 2020 11:08 pm I look at Surge and go "Urgh!" It looks like some 90s shareware, standalone synth from the days before VST. It looks bad enough that I don't even care how it sounds.

At the time it was released I was stunned, but now it clearly belongs to a lower league when compared to the beasts we know (Dune 3, Rapid, Avenger...). It's still a very nice cold-hearted digital-sounding synth. Not sure you NEED it, but be sure it's not a crappy one.

inkwarp · Post by **inkwarp** » Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:28 pm

It's a bit unfair to attack it just on appearance.
The fact is it is very capable and everything is on one screen.
More importantly, as someone has pointed out, it is now open-source and being developed again. some of the new banks are amazing. Probably the best free vsti you can get imo.
edit: forgot to mention, most important of all is it takes hardly any cpu.

monkeygenius · Post by **monkeygenius** » Mon Apr 27, 2020 7:53 pm

The developers of Surge are working on making it skinnable now though, so anyone who doesn't like the way it looks will soon have other options. The skinning engine is already available if you use the nightly builds, and I think we can expect it in a stable release in the near future.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Mon Apr 27, 2020 10:31 pm

inkwarp wrote: ↑Mon Apr 27, 2020 5:28 pmIt's a bit unfair to attack it just on appearance.

Not at all. I look for inspiration from my tools and I see none in Surge. It might sound alright but so do literally hundreds of alternatives so we can all afford to be as picky as we like. The other things you mention are mostly things I haven't had to worry about for many years or that other synths do better. I don't even use my own freeware any more, I'm hardly likely to use anyone else's.

inkwarp · Post by **inkwarp** » Tue Apr 28, 2020 9:03 pm

don't use freeware any more...
ha, ok.
As I say, it's a matter of taste.
surge in musical terms in functionality, lightweight footprint, presets, support from an enthusiastic developer, it's open-source all this pisses all over union. it's junk. but i guess you are shilling for it because it 'looks good' and therefore you can be inspired... by its appearance? top criteria mate..
I tried the demo and uninstalled it minutes later. not one good preset. it's just has a glossy gui which is not ergonomic either.
as I said it 'sounds great' to me. imo.

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Tue Apr 28, 2020 10:05 pm

It doesn't "piss all over Union" at all. Union is a very different synth that I am sure has quite different capabilities to Surge. e.g. Can Surge create it's own wavetables on the fly? Does it have any pre-filter effects you can put in the signal path? (This one is a really cool feature.) What is Surge's patch browser like? To my mind you'd choose Surge if all you want to do is count features but, ultimately, it doesn't have anything to set it apart from dozens of other synths, whereas Union is offering something that is quite a bit different, yet familiar at the same time. i.e. Union uses familiar elements but has them assembled in a fairly unique way, which is definitely less flexible but opens up different possibilities. So while Surge has to compete for attention with a huge pile of other synths that all do similar stuff, Union sits off to one side, doing its own thing. That makes it a lot more compelling to me because something a bit different will get a lot more use than another one of the same.

To put it another way, I already have DUNE 3, Hive 2, Thorn and ArcSyn, why would I also need Surge? OTOH, it's easy for me to see why I might find some uses for Union because it brings something a little bit different to the table that encourages me to approach things from a slightly different angle, increasing my chances of coming up with something a bit fresher than more of the same old stuff. And over the past few months that is exactly what it has done for me and why it has found a spot in so many of the songs I have been working on. I honestly can't put a price on that.

RexBanner · Post by **RexBanner** » Wed Apr 29, 2020 12:08 am

focusrite wrote: ↑Sat Apr 25, 2020 7:57 am
BONES wrote: ↑Sat Apr 25, 2020 6:51 am Sorry but I cannot agree with that statement at all, in any measure. I've managed to get some crazy good sounds out of Union and, of all the softsynths I've bought over the last 12-18 months, it is probably the one I have found the most use for. I use it more than Hive 2, Pigments, PhasePlant, Synthmaster One, the RePros, Strobe 2 or any of the Korg Legacy synths. I'm not sure what it is but there is something about the sound that just works.
Have you tried Ascension yet?

https://www.waproduction.com/plugins/vi ... on-edition

How's this synth when it comes to cpu usage?

BONES · Post by **BONES** » Wed Apr 29, 2020 1:03 am

It's basically a ROMpler so it should be pretty good, I imagine. I'd try it out but I honestly don't need another 10GB of sample content clogging up my SSD.

Soundspot Union Wavetable Synth out today