KVR Audio

AcrossTheSky · Post by **AcrossTheSky** » Tue May 12, 2020 3:20 pm

robotmonkey wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 2:46 pm Lifetime keys for a cloud service. Yeah right. Don't waste your money. I have seen plenty of cloud services that have sold lifetime access fold overnight. It's a total joke.

Couldn't agree more....digital fu.... age

WatchTheGuitar · Post by **WatchTheGuitar** » Tue May 12, 2020 3:27 pm

I've also seen houses robbed...

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Tue May 12, 2020 3:40 pm

DarkStar wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 2:00 pm ^^^
So it's a Lifetime licence, but the Cloud Manager is still going to validate it once a week.

It's not once a week. It's more like once a month now.

rezoneight · Post by **rezoneight** » Tue May 12, 2020 3:54 pm

AcrossTheSky wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 3:20 pm
robotmonkey wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 2:46 pm Lifetime keys for a cloud service. Yeah right. Don't waste your money. I have seen plenty of cloud services that have sold lifetime access fold overnight. It's a total joke.
Couldn't agree more....digital fu.... age

WTF are you guys on about? Again this is no different than Arturia or Native Instruments. And there is no reason that once the service went under that they couldnt fix it so that the instruments didnt need to phone home anymore.

Shiek927 · Post by **Shiek927** » Tue May 12, 2020 3:56 pm

fmr wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 10:14 am
thenumber23 wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 7:22 am I just installed Zenology, and I'm impressed. It basically brings the entire older Roland sample soundsets into one plugin, with good search and virtually instant loading of presets. The main plugin includes the XV-5080 sounds, and there are 15 expansions which seem to mimic the SRX series (I checked Orchestral, and both patch names and sounds seemed identical).

If I'm reading it correctly, if purchased outright, each Zenology expansion is $20 (vs $69 for the SRX plugins), and the Roland site implies Zenology Lite (which I haven't seen yet) is free. That could mean all XV+SRX sounds for $300 lifetime.
Yes, but SRX comes with a full featured "synth", while Zenology is essentially a ROMpler, with very limited edition. Someone compared it with UVI Workstation, but even UVI Workstation offers more editing possibilities, IMO.

Roland keeps adding sample packs, when what people wants and have been asking for is real emulations of the old synths.

On one hand, I absolutely agree with you. It feels like every year there's a bare handful of releases from Roland Cloud and, with every "major" release, it turns out to be something very far from what I'm looking for. I want synthesizers. I want fully-fledged synths where I can edit every parameter and have the whole thing in my DAW. I don't want Nexus-style romplers where I can barely edit anything. I want actual synths.

...which is why, that all being said, I don't dislike what I'm actually seeing from Zenology. One of the common complaints is why the SRX plugins were all released separately instead of released altogether in one plugin akin to the Korg Legacy Collection. That way, you basically have an unlimited JV1080 with all the cards loaded up and able to mix-and-match however you like -- something impossible in hardware. This seems to actually be the ticket because it seems like the sounds are pretty much the same. The soundsets on the new Roland Cloud website have the same names like "Big Brass Ensemble" and "Dance Trax". I definitely agree that it feels like their version of the UVI Workstation but with the classic Roland sounds. And Zenelogy Pro promises deeper sound-editing capabilities.

I'm in the same boat and don't want the "essence of the original instrument". I want the original instrument in my computer. When I say I want the JD800 or V-Synth in my computer, I don't mean all the factory presets bundled into basic ROMpler. I mean I want the hardware completely replicated so I can create my own JD sounds, sample my sounds with the V-Synth, explores presets, and not have to deal with the real thing. I still primarily want to see this out of Roland Cloud. But where they seem to be going with Zenelogy? I can't say it's all bad either

WatchTheGuitar · Post by **WatchTheGuitar** » Tue May 12, 2020 4:01 pm

I think Roland admitted they'd hit a wall with their ACB tech hence the move towards the Zen-core tech seen in both the Zenology plugin and the Jupiter XM etc. so at least what they're working on now is at the forefront of their software and hardware ranges so hopefully any synths they build using the Zen-core approach now will also be rolled out to software.
I wonder if there's any scope for DSP acceleration of Zen-core somewhere down the road?

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Tue May 12, 2020 4:03 pm

Shiek927 wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 3:56 pm The soundsets on the new Roland Cloud website have the same names like "Big Brass Ensemble" and "Dance Trax". I definitely agree that it feels like their version of the UVI Workstation but with the classic Roland sounds. And Zenelogy Pro promises deeper sound-editing capabilities.

I sincerely hoe you're right

Shiek927 wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 3:56 pm I'm in the same boat and don't want the "essence of the original instrument". I want the original instrument in my computer. When I say I want the JD800 or V-Synth in my computer, I don't mean all the factory presets bundled into basic ROMpler. I mean I want the hardware completely replicated so I can create my own JD sounds, sample my sounds with the V-Synth, explores presets, and not have to deal with the real thing. I still primarily want to see this out of Roland Cloud. But where they seem to be going with Zenelogy? I can't say it's all bad either

As time passes, my hopes to see a JD-800 (and much less, a V-Synth) are fading.

What will Zenology Pro bring to us? Let's wait and see.

Stefken · Post by **Stefken** » Tue May 12, 2020 4:14 pm

WatchTheGuitar wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 4:01 pm I think Roland admitted they'd hit a wall with their ACB tech ...
I wonder if there's any scope for DSP acceleration of Zen-core somewhere down the road?

Not sure if they actually hit a wall with ACB. It's still there in the Jupiter X (m) if I'm correct.
But zen-core is much lighter on the cpu and hence allows for much more voices. It uses a combination of VA osc's and PCM instead of analog modeling.

DSP acceleration? Well, it's already much faster then ACB.

sinemotor · Post by **sinemotor** » Tue May 12, 2020 4:14 pm

fmr wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 4:03 pm What will Zenology Pro bring to us? Let's wait and see.

My understanding is that the "Pro" version is going to allow full editing of the Zen-Core engine. Roland will also add the modeled analog synths engines from the Jupiter-X as expansions for Zenology Pro.

https://static.roland.com/products/zeno ... ogy_07.jpg
https://static.roland.com/products/zeno ... ogy_09.jpg
https://static.roland.com/products/zeno ... ogy_08.jpg

mholloway · Post by **mholloway** » Tue May 12, 2020 4:18 pm

all I wanted was a 606 emulation as good as their 808 emulation is, sigh.
they completely nailed the 303, 808 and 909... but 606 nowhere to be found.

fmr · Post by **fmr** » Tue May 12, 2020 4:22 pm

sinemotor wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 4:14 pm
fmr wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 4:03 pm What will Zenology Pro bring to us? Let's wait and see.
My understanding is that the "Pro" version is going to allow full editing of the Zen-Core engine. That is a picture of the Pro interface :

https://static.roland.com/products/zeno ... ogy_07.jpg

Looks neat and simple. Again, let's wait and see

WatchTheGuitar · Post by **WatchTheGuitar** » Tue May 12, 2020 4:28 pm

mholloway wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 4:18 pm all I wanted was a 606 emulation as good as their 808 emulation is, sigh.
they completely nailed the 303, 808 and 909... but 606 nowhere to be found.

I have the D16 Group Nithonat which is supposed to be pretty close, but I end up whacking so many effects on the sound that I don't have a clue what it's supposed to really sound like.

Stefken · Post by **Stefken** » Tue May 12, 2020 4:30 pm

sinemotor wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 4:14 pm
fmr wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 4:03 pm What will Zenology Pro bring to us? Let's wait and see.
My understanding is that the "Pro" version is going to allow full editing of the Zen-Core engine. Roland will also add the modeled analog synths engines from the Jupiter-X as expansions for Zenology Pro.

https://static.roland.com/products/zeno ... ogy_07.jpg
https://static.roland.com/products/zeno ... ogy_09.jpg
https://static.roland.com/products/zeno ... ogy_08.jpg

That's sounds like a very logical conclusion. Featurewise this is exactely what you get in the mc-707 which uses zen-core.
What I don't get is how the zen pro relates to the models in the Jupiter X as I'm pretty sure these are build on ACB and not the zen-engine?

But I wouldn't complain if there were a way to transfer these models to my mc-707.

D-Fusion · Post by **D-Fusion** » Tue May 12, 2020 4:37 pm

Stefken wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 4:30 pm
sinemotor wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 4:14 pm
fmr wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 4:03 pm What will Zenology Pro bring to us? Let's wait and see.
My understanding is that the "Pro" version is going to allow full editing of the Zen-Core engine. Roland will also add the modeled analog synths engines from the Jupiter-X as expansions for Zenology Pro.

https://static.roland.com/products/zeno ... ogy_07.jpg
https://static.roland.com/products/zeno ... ogy_09.jpg
https://static.roland.com/products/zeno ... ogy_08.jpg
That's sounds like a very logical conclusion. Featurewise this is exactely what you get in the mc-707 which uses zen-core.
What I don't get is how the zen pro relates to the models in the Jupiter X as I'm pretty sure these are build on ACB and not the zen-engine?

But I wouldn't complain if there were a way to transfer these models to my mc-707.

The Jupiter X(m) and the Mc 101/707 + The new Fantoms are all Zencore and use the same software.

The only difference between these are the polyphony and the sequencers or arp in Jupiter X + different track count.

Stefken · Post by **Stefken** » Tue May 12, 2020 4:48 pm

This text from the Roland site explains it.

The software is not exactely the same but the engine is expandable.

Miki:We invested a huge amount of time and money to develop a new system-on-a-chip called BMC, which stands for Behavior Modeling Core. Proprietary to Roland, BMC contains a large array of DSP and CPU core blocks plus hardware logic; it is incredibly powerful.

ZEN-Core is an expandable and customizable synthesizer engine running on BMC, and is the heart of the new JUPITER, FANTOM, and GROOVEBOX synth instruments. The combination of BMC and ZEN-Core are like a highly tuned F1 racing engine for sound synthesis.

At the base level, ZEN-Core integrates next-generation PCM and Virtual Analog, with advanced features such as new Virtual Analog oscillators, precisely modeled filters, ultra-fast and smooth envelopes and LFOs, high-resolution parameters, and expandability . The JUPITER-X Series uses one of the first product-specific expansions to the base engine, Analog Behavior Modeling or ABM, which is the technology behind the Model Bank feature. For your interest, the second product-specific expansion to ZEN-Core is V-Piano on the new FANTOM synths.

THE STRUCTURE OF JUPITER-X/Xm

Different from the base Virtual Analog of ZEN-Core, the ABM-powered “Model Bank” synths in the JUPITER-X and Xm reproduce the total character of specific vintage synths including the JUPITER-8, JUNO-106, JX-8P, and SH-101, all with incredible precision. For these synths, we did deep behavioral analysis of elements such as the filter’s curve, range, and response speed, which are different for each model, of course. We even recreate characteristics including oscillator drift driven by temperature changes. We actually put a physical temperature sensor inside the JUPITER-X and Xm to help with this!

I cannot explain all the secrets of the research done by our specialized engineers over months and years, but this should give you some sense of the massive sound creation power of ZEN-Core and the JUPITER-X and Xm. And by the way, we will continue to improve the current Model Bank instruments and introduce totally new ones in the future!

The expandable ZEN-Core engine truly embodies all of Roland’s synthesizer know-how, and through the immense power of our BMC chip, can run multiple synthesis types including product-specific expansions plus DSP effects simultaneously and in real time. It truly is a breakthrough.

Roland Cloud - big change