KVR Audio

flemito · Post by **flemito** » Sun May 24, 2020 1:54 am

Is any of you selling a Z5 or Z5S by Starr Labs? I like the idea of feeling similar to a guitar, while actually using it as a whole new instrument. Also, does any of you have any information about the Digital Instruments DiGitar?

nix808 · Post by **nix808** » Sun May 24, 2020 10:01 pm

have you seen this thread->
https://www.vguitarforums.com/smf/index ... ic=27141.0

Tapper Mike, a member here has experience with the Baby-Z

Tj Shredder · Post by **Tj Shredder** » Sat May 30, 2020 2:13 pm

Nobody mentioned yet Midified Basses. I do have a Peavey MidiBase, a fast tracking Bass, because its using the frets as contacts! Its as fast as a LinnStrument (my real love)...
Playing bass (or guitar) is very different to playing the LinnStrument, it leads to different music...
This is an example where it makes sense to have a midified bass - the one man band...
With one of my favorite bass players:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KJifERRSj5s

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Sat May 30, 2020 2:29 pm

You can midi your bass with a software only app -

https://www.jamorigin.com/products/midi-bass/

I use it with my P Bass and it works pretty well

Tj Shredder · Post by **Tj Shredder** » Sat May 30, 2020 2:54 pm

Thanks for the link, the Peavey isn't fretless, I'll test jamorigin with my fretless...

SLiC · Post by **SLiC** » Sat May 30, 2020 3:22 pm

Tj Shredder wrote: ↑Sat May 30, 2020 2:54 pm Thanks for the link, the Peavey isn't fretless, I'll test jamorigin with my fretless...

I have used it with my fretless (Ibanez SRH500F) and it works but doesn't track as well as the P bass. Its only monophonic with the bass app (guitar one is poly) and I seem to remember it 'stepped' (quantised) the notes output to midi/vst- they may be a way to turn that off, I never tried to get a fretless slide out to midi, would be useful!

vurt · Post by **vurt** » Sat May 30, 2020 3:54 pm

SLiC wrote: ↑Sat May 30, 2020 3:22 pm
Tj Shredder wrote: ↑Sat May 30, 2020 2:54 pm Thanks for the link, the Peavey isn't fretless, I'll test jamorigin with my fretless...
I have used it with my fretless (Ibanez SRH500F) and it works but doesn't track as well as the P bass. Its only monophonic with the bass app (guitar one is poly) and I seem to remember it 'stepped' (quantised) the notes output to midi/vst- they may be a way to turn that off, I never tried to get a fretless slide out to midi, would be useful!

slide is difficult, because you are tracking note on note off messages, not the pitch bend, so you will get stepped slides?

Tj Shredder · Post by **Tj Shredder** » Sat May 30, 2020 4:08 pm

I always thought, if you would have a conductive resistance as fingerboard, you could track the pitch with that instantly. But I think nobody ever made one, it also has to have 4 isolated lanes and an isolating bridge and saddle... Unfortunately I am not a luthier...

Midi wise it wouldn't be a problem. MPE slides +- 48 semitones by default...

tapper mike · Post by **tapper mike** » Sat May 30, 2020 5:46 pm

Yes I do have experience on a the Baby Z and the Z6 both broke and I threw them in the dumpster.

After getting a linnstrument I'll never play a pitch to midi (roland gk,gr, tripleplay etc) ever again. I'll also never play the artiphon instrument one, yourock or ztar again. Playing the linnstrument has a learning curve to it. keyboard type skills, drum pad skillls and guitar skills really don't apply (unless you have dobro and or pedal steel experience) That being said Linnstruments reign supreme and are considerably cheaper (with slight exception) to ztars.

So lets talk about Z6, Heavy as a Fender Jazz Precison bass and just as long. Thick neck plastic equally spaced buttons that are roughly the same width as a guitar at the 9th fret. If you are tall and strong you might be able to stand with one of these and get something happening. On your lap get a firm cushion because your leg is going to fall afast sleep. I had one of the original Z6's made back in the 90's It didn't have the features newer ones do for controlling pull off to open strings. pull offs to open strings is like rubber cement. You handle a pull off and the note will hang. and hang and hang and then you try to hammer on and have a controlled gentle release to get the note to unstick. You can set it up for no open pull offs but then you'll also have to remember that when you play. Newer ones have a metal strip that runs along the back. The idea is that if you want the open note to ring you have to remove your hand completely from the back. It is not going to feel like a guitar when you play it.. If you are a tapper and have everything set to tap.. You are going to be extra special careful about how you set up your velocity settings. Right hand taps are always going to be louder then left hand. You may be able to build up a fair speed with the left hand tapping but you'll suffer wrist fatigue as a result and you'll never be able to play triplets or even 16th notes by tapping with the left. The right hand will be much easier.

The rubberized strings that adorn the Z5 and babyz are much more manageable I had considerably more fun with my baby z and the rubberized string triggers than I did with the actual strings on the Z6. It's like if steinberger came out with a headless /small body uke. At least there is some albeit small body which is more than I can say for the artiphon instrument one. But I digress.

The ztar will always be limited to the guitar technique it allows you to play. If you.. open an organ patch and start playing it's not going to sound like an organ being played by an organist. If you spend lots and lots and lots of time developing your tapping technique you may attain some aspects of "pianistic" performance. But you have to throw away everything you have comfort with on the guitar. As Roger Linn has stated basically they like standardized keyboards are little more than on off buttons. Even in non mpe mode a linnstrument 128 which sells for roughly $1000, USD is better for overall responsiveness than any ztar at any price. It's easier to lean the LS than it is to adapt to a ztar. You'll have a level of expression so far exceeding any guitar based or non mpe keyboard or pad surface. a 128 is magical if it's in a desktop position or cradled on a music stand for right hand standing tapping. Having an instrument sound no matter how awesome it may be whether it's on a rompler based workstation, a hardware synth or computer plugin will always sound as generic and lifeless as the midi device that controls it.

The first five years of having ztars I was a ztar evangelist. Loved em poured my soul into them and sang their praises far and wide. Now that I'm a linnstrument player who's spent considerable time with that developing my technique you couldn't give me a ztar.

CapnLockheed · Post by **CapnLockheed** » Fri Jul 31, 2020 6:30 pm

Tj Shredder wrote: ↑Sat May 30, 2020 4:08 pm I always thought, if you would have a conductive resistance as fingerboard, you could track the pitch with that instantly. But I think nobody ever made one, it also has to have 4 isolated lanes and an isolating bridge and saddle... Unfortunately I am not a luthier...
Midi wise it wouldn't be a problem. MPE slides +- 48 semitones by default...

Such a beast, (sort of), was made in the 60's & 70's. Each note on the fretboard was insulated and was a single electrical contact. It tracked well BUT this was pre MIDI so all it could play were its own internal organ sounds actually built into the guitar.....so it was a bit on the heavy side. The organ sounded similar to transistor combo organs of the day like a Vox or Farfisa. Vox made one and a US company made one as well. The MCI Musiconics B-35.

I owned one of these, exactly like this one, back in the day but eventually sold it to get into real MIDI guitar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oPOBrwR2I8

MIDI Guitar