KVR Audio

DrEntropy · Post by **DrEntropy** » Mon May 18, 2020 3:43 pm

I hope I didn't pick a bad time to move to use the Juce Framework lol. I am NOT a fan of PACE and ilok. But right now there is really not a better option for developing for multiple frameworks, or at least that I could find.

Xenakios · Post by **Xenakios** » Mon May 18, 2020 7:30 pm

DrEntropy wrote: ↑Mon May 18, 2020 3:43 pm I hope I didn't pick a bad time to move to use the Juce Framework lol.

So far it seems the Pace acquisition isn't going to change much. At least the Juce developer team seems to handle this merely as a change of who is paying their salaries. But it's obviously a good idea to keep an eye on this stuff. For me, it doesn't make much sense for something like Pace to acquire Juce, unless there's some deeper plan in the works...

Markus Krause · Post by **Markus Krause** » Wed May 20, 2020 8:59 am

I have been thinking about getting Juce. But i decided to stay with the VST SDK and VSTGUI.
- The customers don't like PACE and ilok
- I do not want to depend on another company
- The is an realistic chance that the JUCE development might stop after the aquisition by PACE
- The JUCE framework is bloated

quikquak · Post by **quikquak** » Thu May 21, 2020 1:10 pm

I use JUCE because I couldn't keep up with the continuous Apple updates and Xcode version nightmares. Not to mention all the 'boilerplate' code needed to keep things running, when I'd rather be writing DSP and plug-ins.
I wouldn't call it bloated, but I just I wish they'd get rid of the stupid Projucer compiler thing - but I can ignore it easily. You can also just use the modules you want. I'm only interested in compatibility, none of the library stuff, most of of which is aimed at beginners

The only complaint I'd have is the out of date CPU renderer. But I can get around that.

FigBug · Post by **FigBug** » Thu May 21, 2020 7:08 pm

Yeah, I don't get the bloat comment. It's a library primary written by one person. It's not that big. And it's split into modules, you can pull in what you need or don't need.

I think the Projucer is the best part. Currently I have 20 plugins on 3 platforms. If I wasn't using the Projucer that would be 120 projects (Win VST, VST3, Mac AU, VST, VST, & Linux * 20) I'd need to update every time I added a file or changed a compiler setting. With Projucer I can just write a little script to update the .jucer file and all projects are automatically updated. If you don't like the Projucer it's easy enough to just add the files manually, or as of juce 6, use cmake.

<quote>- I do not want to depend on another company</quote>

This is the biggest issue. Maintaining my own juce fork and merging in their changes. But it still saves me time vs writing everything myself.

The CPU renderer really needs to be replaced. Hopefully PACE puts the money towards that. Roli has pretty much neglected juce for the last few years.

quikquak · Post by **quikquak** » Thu May 21, 2020 7:50 pm

Yes, the Projucer is really good idea, it's just the 'build' part of it is just not used by enough people, IMHO of course.

FigBug · Post by **FigBug** » Thu May 21, 2020 8:01 pm

quikquak wrote: ↑Thu May 21, 2020 7:50 pm Yes, the Projucer is really good idea, it's just the 'build' part of it is just not used by enough people, IMHO of course.

Oh, you mean the live build thing. Yeah, I completely forgot that even existed.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Thu May 21, 2020 8:13 pm

Markus Krause wrote: ↑Wed May 20, 2020 8:59 am- The is an realistic chance that the JUCE development might stop after the aquisition by PACE
- The JUCE framework is bloated

Just because PACE now owns JUCE doesn't mean you are obliged to implement PACE in your product built using JUCE. They will of course work on making it easier if you do want that, but you don't have to do it. So, the end user doesn't really need to worry about this at all.

JUCE development is not stopping, it's actually ramping up.

JUCE is not bloated, and VSTGUI is pretty shit compared to how JUCE deals with all the graphics stuff...

(BTW guys, JUCE 6 does away with projucer and moves to cmake, which makes a ton more sense actually.)

quikquak · Post by **quikquak** » Thu May 21, 2020 8:19 pm

What? The projucer has gone completely? Well now, that's pretty crap.

EvilDragon · Post by **EvilDragon** » Thu May 21, 2020 8:22 pm

Looks like I said it in a wrong way. Sorry!

"The Projucer

The CMake support now available in JUCE allows advanced developers to avoid the Projucer entirely. However, those who use the Projucer to manage project files across multiple platforms can look forward to a much improved experience. Updates include:

You are no longer required to sign in to a MyROLI account when using the Projucer
All analytics collection has been removed
A new notifications area prevents pop-up windows from getting in your way, but keeps you abreast of any issues or upgrades.
It’s now simple to run the Projucer headlessly on Linux, making it much easier to integrate with automated build workflows and continuous integration systems."

https://juce.com/discover/stories/announcing-juce-6

FigBug · Post by **FigBug** » Thu May 21, 2020 8:23 pm

quikquak · Post by **quikquak** » Thu May 21, 2020 8:25 pm

Ahh, OK thanks for clarifying. Yeah it's all good, I know people have been asking for cmake for a while, but Jules didn't care for it.

No_Use · Post by **No_Use** » Thu May 21, 2020 8:25 pm

EvilDragon wrote: ↑Thu May 21, 2020 8:13 pm Just because PACE now owns JUCE doesn't mean you are obliged to implement PACE in your product built using JUCE. They will of course work on making it easier if you do want that, but you don't have to do it. So, the end user doesn't really need to worry about this at all.

JUCE development is not stopping, it's actually ramping up.

What is your source for this?
edit: I mean that it'll stay this way in the forseeable future if that's what you're stating..

syntonica · Post by **syntonica** » Thu May 21, 2020 9:06 pm

No more analytics! Yay! Still a splash screen, but what can you do?

I can't tell if Projucer will be available fully to the free tiers again, though.

Markus Krause · Post by **Markus Krause** » Mon May 25, 2020 8:07 am

I moved to VST SDK 3.6.9 . It the last one that still has VST 2.4 support and is working properly - at least on PC. I will run some tests on the Mac soon.
I won't move to JUCE, since it is not clear to me what will happen in the future with it.

Pace /ilok acquires Juce framework