Are MPE Controllers a fad ?

[Pashkuli]

MPE is an extension over MIDI. It is an attempt to modernise an old communication protocol for digital instruments' data.

Let's say MPE is the static version of OSC (Open Sound Control)

[Noumena]

A big deal is that if synths comport to the MPE standard they will support expression and automation per voice. This is a huge change vs all previous synths. Once this becomes the norm it opens a wide territory of possibility. Not just from controllers but hosts or other MIDI plugins. Bitwig already has a lot of per voice automation that opens up MPE supporting synths even if you don’t have an MPE controller. I feel like we’re verging on a modular-like (but polyphonic) revolution in sound design with these new tools and capabilities.

[Echoes in the Attic]

Here's an interesting thought. What about adding Touch Keys to an Osmose? You would actually add 3 new dimensions:
-Y axis modulation
-Contact area (different from pressure, you put more of your finger down over the key)
-X axis position on the key. While this is similar to the Osmose X axis in that you'd likely use vibrato here, it actually is a different motion. The Osmose key itself moves, where as this is the placement of your finger on the key, so you could do an x-axis expression when pressing very lightly that was different to deeper key bend.

I received an email that these guys are doing a new production run soon and gauging interest. I can't justify spending more money right now on gear, but I have thought it would be cool to add to my Novation SL61.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNxacJZXPic

[Distorted Horizon]

Roli made 35 million dollars of operating loss

[pdxindy]

Here's an interesting thought. What about adding Touch Keys to an Osmose? You would actually add 3 new dimensions:
-Y axis modulation
-Contact area (different from pressure, you put more of your finger down over the key)
-X axis position on the key. While this is similar to the Osmose X axis in that you'd likely use vibrato here, it actually is a different motion. The Osmose key itself moves, where as this is the placement of your finger on the key, so you could do an x-axis expression when pressing very lightly that was different to deeper key bend.

I want to use the Osmose for a while... I may end up feeling it is good as it is. Also, it will likely take me a year or two just to become proficient with Osmose as it is.

Also, Osmose as is, uses pitch, pressure and timbre. Bitwig doesn't support adding more per voice expressions. Logic is more open ended that way, but I use Bitwig most of the time.

[Echoes in the Attic]

Here's an interesting thought. What about adding Touch Keys to an Osmose? You would actually add 3 new dimensions:
-Y axis modulation
-Contact area (different from pressure, you put more of your finger down over the key)
-X axis position on the key. While this is similar to the Osmose X axis in that you'd likely use vibrato here, it actually is a different motion. The Osmose key itself moves, where as this is the placement of your finger on the key, so you could do an x-axis expression when pressing very lightly that was different to deeper key bend.

I want to use the Osmose for a while... I may end up feeling it is good as it is. Also, it will likely take me a year or two just to become proficient with Osmose as it is.

Also, Osmose as is, uses pitch, pressure and timbre. Bitwig doesn't support adding more per voice expressions. Logic is more open ended that way, but I use Bitwig most of the time.

I'm curious how Osmose will work with a regular MPE sound source and DAW like Bitwig, because from what I understand it's a rather different set of expressions than regular MPE. They have two different stages of pressure, the initial range and then the aftertouch that starts at the bottom of the key depth. The Osmose doesn't have the typical timbre expression, which is a Y axis movement. And the initial pressure is also responsible for getting the velocity. So how would you map the Osmose expressions to regular MPE? Would you have osmose initial pressure be mpe pressure and it's aftertouch sending timbre? I guess that would make the most sense.

But yeah you're right that additional expressions would have nowhere to be recorded and stored in Bitwig. Too bad it wasn't like Cubase where you could have as many per voice note expressions as you want.

[ThomasHelzle]

Well, I guess we'll have to wait until it's here to find out
My GF ordered one and I'm super curious how it plays.
Overall my impression is, that the Osmose looks much more natural to play than something like the Seaboard, which is still weird and somehow neither a real keyboard nor as versatile as the Linnstrument (for me - I only have a block).
I could imagine that the advanced pressure options are much closer to what you would "expect" your fingers to do on a keyboard than the slide along the y axis - which I always find alien. And for a keyboard, the Osmose finger wiggle vibrato also seems more natural than wobbling over the seaboard waves while trying not to lose the note...
So I hope that the Osmose really nails the keyboard style playing and for more advanced things, I'd rather go for something like a Linnstrument type of controller or a Continuum.

Interesting times

Tom

[Echoes in the Attic]

Well, I guess we'll have to wait until it's here to find out
My GF ordered one and I'm super curious how it plays.
Overall my impression is, that the Osmose looks much more natural to play than something like the Seaboard, which is still weird and somehow neither a real keyboard nor as versatile as the Linnstrument (for me - I only have a block).
I could imagine that the advanced pressure options are much closer to what you would "expect" your fingers to do on a keyboard than the slide along the y axis - which I always find alien. And for a keyboard, the Osmose finger wiggle vibrato also seems more natural than wobbling over the seaboard waves while trying not to lose the note...
So I hope that the Osmose really nails the keyboard style playing and for more advanced things, I'd rather go for something like a Linnstrument type of controller or a Continuum.

Interesting times

Tom

No doubt that Osmose will be easier for most people to adapt to, especially for faster playing styles. FYI I had a seaboard block for a while and sold it quickly. Just couldn't get used to it. Bought a linnstrument instead but then got a full size Rise 49 later and actually it's my favorite of the bunch now. But I admit that it's not something I use much for faster runs. Though there are certainly some who can do it well.

[pdxindy]

Here's an interesting thought. What about adding Touch Keys to an Osmose? You would actually add 3 new dimensions:
-Y axis modulation
-Contact area (different from pressure, you put more of your finger down over the key)
-X axis position on the key. While this is similar to the Osmose X axis in that you'd likely use vibrato here, it actually is a different motion. The Osmose key itself moves, where as this is the placement of your finger on the key, so you could do an x-axis expression when pressing very lightly that was different to deeper key bend.

I want to use the Osmose for a while... I may end up feeling it is good as it is. Also, it will likely take me a year or two just to become proficient with Osmose as it is.

Also, Osmose as is, uses pitch, pressure and timbre. Bitwig doesn't support adding more per voice expressions. Logic is more open ended that way, but I use Bitwig most of the time.

I'm curious how Osmose will work with a regular MPE sound source and DAW like Bitwig, because from what I understand it's a rather different set of expressions than regular MPE. They have two different stages of pressure, the initial range and then the aftertouch that starts at the bottom of the key depth. The Osmose doesn't have the typical timbre expression, which is a Y axis movement. And the initial pressure is also responsible for getting the velocity. So how would you map the Osmose expressions to regular MPE? Would you have osmose initial pressure be mpe pressure and it's aftertouch sending timbre? I guess that would make the most sense.

But yeah you're right that additional expressions would have nowhere to be recorded and stored in Bitwig. Too bad it wasn't like Cubase where you could have as many per voice note expressions as you want.

The deeper pressure level maps to timbre (CC#74)

That was mentioned in one of the videos

[ThomasHelzle]

No doubt that Osmose will be easier for most people to adapt to, especially for faster playing styles. FYI I had a seaboard block for a while and sold it quickly. Just couldn't get used to it. Bought a linnstrument instead but then got a full size Rise 49 later and actually it's my favorite of the bunch now. But I admit that it's not something I use much for faster runs. Though there are certainly some who can do it well.

Yeah, I personally find the Seaboard only okayish for slow padlike things or flute (although the EWI USB plays much better for wind instruments). It reacts very slow and non-sensitive to "normal" playing and although I know there are people even using it for drums, I can't imagine that myself.

But my personal journey currently goes towards real instruments more and more anyway and so some of the "workarounds" of Midi and controllers begin to feel a bit funny at times. I play more and more guitar, got a real, 100 year old Harmonium a while ago and am now looking into learning to play the Duduk.
Took me a long time to come full circle but my long search into better and better controllers brought about the realisation that what I'm really looking for is living, breathing instruments.

Cheers,

Tom

[pdxindy]

But yeah you're right that additional expressions would have nowhere to be recorded and stored in Bitwig. Too bad it wasn't like Cubase where you could have as many per voice note expressions as you want.

Yeah, Logic is like Cubase...

However, I'm fine with X, Y and Z... I couldn't control more than that in realtime anyway. Plus it takes plenty of work to make good presets just for those. And when done well, I am happy with the level of per voice control. I don't feel a need for more.

If I want anything, it will be a bit more subtlety in the hardware itself... which is where the Osmose comes in.

[pdxindy]

No doubt that Osmose will be easier for most people to adapt to, especially for faster playing styles. FYI I had a seaboard block for a while and sold it quickly. Just couldn't get used to it. Bought a linnstrument instead but then got a full size Rise 49 later and actually it's my favorite of the bunch now. But I admit that it's not something I use much for faster runs. Though there are certainly some who can do it well.

Yeah, I personally find the Seaboard only okayish for slow padlike things or flute (although the EWI USB plays much better for wind instruments). It reacts very slow and non-sensitive to "normal" playing and although I know there are people even using it for drums, I can't imagine that myself.

But my personal journey currently goes towards real instruments more and more anyway and so some of the "workarounds" of Midi and controllers begin to feel a bit funny at times. I play more and more guitar, got a real, 100 year old Harmonium a while ago and am now looking into learning to play the Duduk.
Took me a long time to come full circle but my long search into better and better controllers brought about the realisation that what I'm really looking for is living, breathing instruments.

Cheers,

Tom

I love real instruments too... however, I don't want to give up the beautiful qualities of synthesis... so I still want synth controllers that get closer to real instruments in their organic expressiveness...

I should try the EWI... I love playing my flute

[ThomasHelzle]

I love real instruments too... however, I don't want to give up the beautiful qualities of synthesis... so I still want synth controllers that get closer to real instruments in their organic expressiveness...

I should try the EWI... I love playing my flute

Yeah, it's funny it took me so long, since I never really was into synth sounds that much, only when they had a somehow "real" character. Mostly I love physical modelling (also a point for the Osmose) or samples.

Ha, didn't know you play the flute! Cool. I played the recorder for years as a kid so the EWI came very natural. But I didn't find really good things to play with it until Respiro came out (https://www.imoxplus.com). "Mutated Duduk" and the EWI are magic. But after playing it for a while I realised, that I'd rather have a real Duduk still...

The EWI is the most affordable and simple I found. There are much better ones like the Sylphyo: https://www.aodyo.com - much more expressive possibilities too (but I never played one).

But yeah, I'd still love to see really good advanced controllers, the current batch is just the beginning IMO. No fad, but work in progress

Cheers,

Tom

[aMUSEd]

I love real instruments too... however, I don't want to give up the beautiful qualities of synthesis... so I still want synth controllers that get closer to real instruments in their organic expressiveness...

I should try the EWI... I love playing my flute

All that needs to be said really on this topic. As with any art form, musicians have always striven to improve their means of expression. MPE isn't perfect and I'm sure eventually will evolve into, or be replaced by, something even better, but in the meantime it is a step in the right direction.

[_leras]

there's absolutely no way that this will be fad. now and other per note modulation is a new almost mandatory functionality to have a fully featured soft synth. people expect this functionality to exist in a synth, even if the only program this in their DAW.

controllers for this though... well that i think is more problematic. they will be niche, expensive. clearly some companies trying to make thes will struggle. I do hope this area is innovated in though. I don't think we've seen the best way to do this yet!