Are MPE Controllers a fad ?

[Echoes in the Attic]

Definitely doesn't have to be expensive. Even Bitwig's touch screen grid is useful with MPE instruments. There is no velocity except in the taller note mode where up/down strike can send vel, and there isn't proper pressure but there is a contact area simulation. I hope one day PC touch screen technology improves to include pressure and velocity like on iphones and maybe more DAWs will have touch input for notes.

[pdxindy]

Definitely doesn't have to be expensive. Even Bitwig's touch screen grid is useful with MPE instruments. There is no velocity except in the taller note mode where up/down strike can send vel, and there isn't proper pressure but there is a contact area simulation. I hope one day PC touch screen technology improves to include pressure and velocity like on iphones and maybe more DAWs will have touch input for notes.

The current iPhones no longer have that capability. Never really caught on and Apple dropped it.

[Ploki]

Definitely doesn't have to be expensive. Even Bitwig's touch screen grid is useful with MPE instruments. There is no velocity except in the taller note mode where up/down strike can send vel, and there isn't proper pressure but there is a contact area simulation. I hope one day PC touch screen technology improves to include pressure and velocity like on iphones and maybe more DAWs will have touch input for notes.

The current iPhones no longer have that capability. Never really caught on and Apple dropped it.

i got used to it on my Xr, but it was problematic at first. 3D touch worked so much better.

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Yeah, I personally find the Seaboard only okayish for slow padlike things or flute (although the EWI USB plays much better for wind instruments). It reacts very slow and non-sensitive to "normal" playing and although I know there are people even using it for drums, I can't imagine that myself.

Perhaps you just need to work on your chops

Oh, and I'm one of those finger-drummers who now exclusively uses the Rise for drums. It's worlds better than the modified Akai and the Korg Padkontrol that I used to use Perhaps I should try and get a little recording put together.

Some fast runs being pulled off effortlessly in this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGCDZ5AihwA

[Echoes in the Attic]

Definitely doesn't have to be expensive. Even Bitwig's touch screen grid is useful with MPE instruments. There is no velocity except in the taller note mode where up/down strike can send vel, and there isn't proper pressure but there is a contact area simulation. I hope one day PC touch screen technology improves to include pressure and velocity like on iphones and maybe more DAWs will have touch input for notes.

The current iPhones no longer have that capability. Never really caught on and Apple dropped it.

Didn't realize. Though I think it would be much more useful on a bigger screen where you are actually doing productive things.

[himalaya]

Yeah, I personally find the Seaboard only okayish for slow padlike things or flute (although the EWI USB plays much better for wind instruments). It reacts very slow and non-sensitive to "normal" playing and although I know there are people even using it for drums, I can't imagine that myself.

Perhaps you just need to work on your chops

That's what it's about: chops/skill.

It would be strange for people to complain that when they bought their first violin, they can't play fast runs, wouldn't it? We would expect a new violin player to put in some serious effort into their daily practice to achieve the skill required to perform fast runs, that stay in tune, at that!

Oh, and I'm one of those finger-drummers who now exclusively uses the Rise for drums. It's worlds better than the modified Akai and the Korg Padkontrol that I used to use Perhaps I should try and get a little recording put together.

I'm glad that you said that since the Seaboard RISE is excellent for playing percussive sounds, especially with the Absolute mode in Equator or Cypher2. Have you tried it yet?

[pdxindy]

I'm glad that you said that since the Seaboard RISE is excellent for playing percussive sounds, especially with the Absolute mode in Equator. Have you tried it yet?

Does the Rise have an Absolute mode where there is no modulation after the initial strike?

[himalaya]

Can you clarify what you mean? The 'absolute' mode does not require anything other than the initial strike to work. Then, separate from this, after the initial strike there is the continuous pressure modulation, but it has nothing to do with the 'Absolute mode'.

Or do you mean that you want just the 'initial strike' when working in the 'absolute' mode, without engaging with 'continuous pressure'?

[el-bo (formerly ebow)]

Yeah, I personally find the Seaboard only okayish for slow padlike things or flute (although the EWI USB plays much better for wind instruments). It reacts very slow and non-sensitive to "normal" playing and although I know there are people even using it for drums, I can't imagine that myself.

Perhaps you just need to work on your chops

That's what it's about: chops/skill.

It would be strange for people to complain that when they bought their first violin, they can't play fast runs, wouldn't it? We would expect a new violin player to put in some serious effort into their daily practice to achieve the skill required to perform fast runs, that stay in tune, at that!

Yes! It is definitely a different kind of material to work with, but I'm curious what it is about it that would be a hinderance to fast playing.

Pianists and keyboardists have been flying up and down the octaves for centuries, despite having to negotiate key-travel and key-return inherent in traditional boards. The Seaboard does away with most of that dead space, offering a much more direct connection between initial strike and sound

Oh, and I'm one of those finger-drummers who now exclusively uses the Rise for drums. It's worlds better than the modified Akai and the Korg Padkontrol that I used to use Perhaps I should try and get a little recording put together.

I'm glad that you said that since the Seaboard RISE is excellent for playing percussive sounds, especially with the Absolute mode in Equator or Cypher2. Have you tried it yet?

By "Absolute mode", do you mean with full quantisation?

For drumming and percussion, I mainly use BFD3 (SO GOOD!), Flying hand Percussion (Kontakt), various Auxiliary packages (Also Kontakt), and NI's Discovery Series. All of these I use in 'Piano' mode.

I get very frustrated with Cypher 2, so tend to just ignore it these days. But I will try some percussion within Equator. Any particular favourites? I also might see if I can introduce some instability into FHP, to get even more expression

[himalaya]

By "Absolute mode", do you mean with full quantisation?

Oh no. The absolute mode allows you to play along the key-wave, triggering new values the higher you go. It's perfect for all manner of percussive sounds. Check out the bookmarked segment in this video. Watch how the sound changes when Heen Wah-Wai plays the C note (he then mangles the sound with the faders, but ignore this). You may need to play this video on YouTube (and not via the forum) to get the bookmark working.

https://youtu.be/5yzwoc1l5e0?t=185

[pdxindy]

Can you clarify what you mean? The 'absolute' mode does not require anything other than the initial strike to work. Then, separate from this, after the initial strike there is the continuous pressure modulation, but it has nothing to do with the 'Absolute mode'.

Or do you mean that you want just the 'initial strike' when working in the 'absolute' mode, without engaging with 'continuous pressure'?

Yes, there are times when I just want the initial strike in absolute mode...

My experience is with the Linnstrument and the range of the Y axis is physically much smaller. I've asked Roger for the feature but he hasn't yet seen its utility.

I imagine it is less needed on the Rise as the physical range of the Y axis is much bigger and so slight movements of the finger while playing will have less impact given a similar setting.

One example where I've wanted it is if I have a plucked sound and add some cutoff modulation on the Y axis in Absolute mode. If I make the cutoff range larger, then the slightest movement of my finger while playing notes can modulate cutoff during the note which no longer sounds like a natural pluck. I've run into it enough times that I am sure it would be a useful addition.

Perhaps it would not matter on the Rise, but I thought I would ask.

[himalaya]

I get very frustrated with Cypher 2, so tend to just ignore it these days. But I will try some percussion within Equator. Any particular favourites? I also might see if I can introduce some instability into FHP, to get even more expression

Tell me what troubles you in Cypher2 and I will alleviate all your problems. . You can PM me.

Regarding percussive sounds, Cypher2 has some, but Equator has the very first 5D, absolute mode drums in a plugin. I think only the Eagan Matrix had a couple of 'dimensional' drums before that (notably, the truly excellent Tabla preset - Ed Eagan is a bona fide master we should all bow down to). I'll suggest a few presets later...

[Echoes in the Attic]

I get very frustrated with Cypher 2, so tend to just ignore it these days. But I will try some percussion within Equator. Any particular favourites? I also might see if I can introduce some instability into FHP, to get even more expression

Tell me what troubles you in Cypher2 and I will alleviate all your problems. . You can PM me.

Here's one for you: The response of knobs is too slow. A preference to speed that up would make it more enjoyable. Going from using equator to using Cypher/Strobe is like suddenly being stuck in mud. If Roli are going to have these under their wing, they should try to get the responses to feel similar.

[himalaya]

Ok. I understand it better now.

I imagine it is less needed on the Rise as the physical range of the Y axis is much bigger and so slight movements of the finger while playing will have less impact given a similar setting.

Despite the larger Y-axis 'travel' area on the RISE, there still needs to be a way to manage how the finger interacts with anything post-initial-strike.
And if I understand you correctly, this would be accomplished with the 'expression curves' in the plugin (if such are indeed available). Equator and Cypher2/Strobe2 all come with 'expression curves', so you can create a zone without any modulation around the area of the initial strike. This creates this no-mod 'buffer' zone and you can wiggle the finger without worrying that you will trigger anything assigned to the Y-axis, or indeed the Z-axis (pressure). In fact, expression curves are a must for any 'MPE' synth for exactly these reasons, they allow us to balance/manage/fine tune how all dimensions interact with your finger gestures.

In your example, where you want to create a bigger area around your initial strike, so that tiny finger movements on Linnstrument wouldn't trigger additional Y-axis modulation, I'd create the expression-curve shapes as seen in the photo below. Look at the SLIDE modulation source (the two arrows). That flat area around the centre point will do exactly what you desire, and small finger movements that stay within that flat area will not trigger any additional modulation (on the Y-axis). This flat-no-mod area can be very easily fine tuned, simply wiggle your finger on your playing surface, and watch the modulation node move left to right. Extend this zone as much as the node shows you.

In the photo I've shown other dimensions like PRESS (Z-axis or pressure) and LIFT (velocity-note off) with the same 'no-mod zones' just for reference to highlight that these also need the same approach in many cases.

[himalaya]

I get very frustrated with Cypher 2, so tend to just ignore it these days. But I will try some percussion within Equator. Any particular favourites? I also might see if I can introduce some instability into FHP, to get even more expression

Tell me what troubles you in Cypher2 and I will alleviate all your problems. . You can PM me.

Here's one for you: The response of knobs is too slow. A preference to speed that up would make it more enjoyable. Going from using equator to using Cypher/Strobe is like suddenly being stuck in mud. If Roli are going to have these under their wing, they should try to get the responses to feel similar.

Equator and Cypher2/Strobe2 are build on completely different platforms. Different code base. Nothing is shared between these, so it's no surprise that the response may be different.

But, I actually like Cypher2's more finely balanced response. Equator's dials are more 'jerky' in comparison. In fact, it's the very first time I hear that Cypher2/Strobe2's dials feel like 'being stuck in mud'. ?