First of all I'm starting to get better at creating chords and naming them comparing to my previous encounters.Thanks to all the genious & warm hearted people on this forum.Without you I wouldn't have come this far!
Now my question: I see most cadences are built around major chords.e.g:plagal,complete.I was told that minor chords have weak resolution so these cadences won't give proper result.So I was wondering if there is any separate cadences built just for minor chords or any other ways to make those major cadence work perfectly for minor chords as well
Cadences for minor chord
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- KVRian
- 1020 posts since 4 Jun, 2006
Hi, wiki has a fairly comprehensive document including sound file examples.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadence
I found it an interesting read and listen, and identified a few cadence types I seem to employ while playing, without realising I did so.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadence
I found it an interesting read and listen, and identified a few cadence types I seem to employ while playing, without realising I did so.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 135 posts since 4 Apr, 2018
I don't seem to find any cadence related to minor chords.Can you share what your interesting read were?xtp wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:29 am Hi, wiki has a fairly comprehensive document including sound file examples.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadence
I found it an interesting read and listen, and identified a few cadence types I seem to employ while playing, without realising I did so.
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- KVRAF
- 11001 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere
Do you mean built around pieces of music in a Major key? It’s not that common that pieces consist entirely of Major chords.
Major and minor keys will have methods to resolve a chord sequence in harmonic music, and there is both overlap and a few differences.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 135 posts since 4 Apr, 2018
I mean in case of both major & minor keys.They both have major & minor chords.but as most cadences(e.g plagal,perfect,imperfect) I've seen so far are written for major chord resolution.i wanted to know if there was cadences built for minor chord resolution.I hope I've made that clearForgotten wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:40 pmDo you mean built around pieces of music in a Major key? It’s not that common that pieces consist entirely of Major chords.
Major and minor keys will have methods to resolve a chord sequence in harmonic music, and there is both overlap and a few differences.
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- KVRian
- 1020 posts since 4 Jun, 2006
Hi, I was hearing the Phrygian half cadence and the Lydian cadence as minor.msf sadib wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 2:34 pmI don't seem to find any cadence related to minor chords.Can you share what your interesting read were?xtp wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 9:29 am Hi, wiki has a fairly comprehensive document including sound file examples.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadence
I found it an interesting read and listen, and identified a few cadence types I seem to employ while playing, without realising I did so.
Last edited by xtp on Mon Apr 06, 2020 5:19 am, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 11001 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere
Minor keys should resolve to the i (in most cases).msf sadib wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:21 amI mean in case of both major & minor keys.They both have major & minor chords.but as most cadences(e.g plagal,perfect,imperfect) I've seen so far are written for major chord resolution.i wanted to know if there was cadences built for minor chord resolution.I hope I've made that clearForgotten wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:40 pmDo you mean built around pieces of music in a Major key? It’s not that common that pieces consist entirely of Major chords.
Major and minor keys will have methods to resolve a chord sequence in harmonic music, and there is both overlap and a few differences.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 135 posts since 4 Apr, 2018
From the same dominant chords? Or from other chord?Forgotten wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 4:13 pmMinor keys should resolve to the i (in most cases).msf sadib wrote: ↑Sun Apr 05, 2020 6:21 amI mean in case of both major & minor keys.They both have major & minor chords.but as most cadences(e.g plagal,perfect,imperfect) I've seen so far are written for major chord resolution.i wanted to know if there was cadences built for minor chord resolution.I hope I've made that clearForgotten wrote: ↑Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:40 pmDo you mean built around pieces of music in a Major key? It’s not that common that pieces consist entirely of Major chords.
Major and minor keys will have methods to resolve a chord sequence in harmonic music, and there is both overlap and a few differences.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 135 posts since 4 Apr, 2018
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- KVRAF
- 11001 posts since 15 Apr, 2019 from Nowhere
The 7th of the natural minor is a semitone flatter than the harmonic minor, so the diatonic 5th becomes v rather than V.
For example, in Cm the V is G-B-D, but the natural minor will flatten the B to Bb, which is Gm.
For example, in Cm the V is G-B-D, but the natural minor will flatten the B to Bb, which is Gm.
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- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
You’re hung up on the term cadences, which takes the name of a thing in place of the thing itself finally. A cadence is a cadence and it ends with I, i, or a substitute. Or half cadence on V. You wouldn’t find talk about a minor cadence as the term is not particularly useful.
What you need to do is locate the ideas in practice.
V-I vs V-i. Deceptive cadence in major is V-vi typically, in minor V-VI.
Classically v-i doesn’t constitute a harmonic cadence; natural minor is weaker functionally owing to no dominant. IE: v vs V. V has the leading tone to i same as to I, 7-8.
What you need to do is locate the ideas in practice.
V-I vs V-i. Deceptive cadence in major is V-vi typically, in minor V-VI.
Classically v-i doesn’t constitute a harmonic cadence; natural minor is weaker functionally owing to no dominant. IE: v vs V. V has the leading tone to i same as to I, 7-8.
Last edited by jancivil on Thu May 28, 2020 5:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
From the same dominant type, built on 5 as the major triad, usually as a 7th chord.From the same dominant chords? Or from other chord?Minor keys should resolve to the i (in most cases).
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- KVRAF
- 25053 posts since 20 Oct, 2007 from gonesville
A piece of music set in minor key finally ending on the major I uses a fairly old move known as the Picardie Third. Probably significantly less prevalent overall.
I was told that minor chords have weak resolution so...
minor v is probably what was meant.
I was told that minor chords have weak resolution so...
minor v is probably what was meant.
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- KVRian
- 880 posts since 26 Oct, 2011
My 2cents on cadences:
When it comes to classical music, cadences are conceptually much bigger thing than they are in lot of contemporary music. I'd say it might be more productive to think less about cadences and more about phrases and how you end them. If you have the I-V-vi-IV pop progression looping thorough the song, you are unlikely to have much in that song that would be understood as a cadence. The V-iv passage, for instance, is not an imperfect cadence there - the whole point of the progression is to just loop around.
So in contemporary pop music, from what I've found anyway, it's more common to have cadences only at the very end of the song (unless it fades out slowly, less common today). It however is by far not unheard of that you might end a phrase with a cadence of some sort - so for instance, if your song is in minor and you have a progression such as i | bVII | bVI | v, the "last pass" of this progression before your next section could have a V instead of v. So in A minor, you would do Am | G | F | Em normally, but in last pass you throw in E instead of Em. It helps to give more definition for the section as well.
The topic of resolution on the other hand is another matter and it relates to how one chord resolves to another. As Jan said above, the v-i passage of minor is considered "weak" because it lacks the leading tone. For this reason, it was common practice to make songs in minor where cadential points of the song would use a V instead of v. If you end your minor song in major tonic rather than minor one, the "picardy third", the reason for that was to have satisfying, fulfilling ending. Why do such a thing for a minor song, you might ask? Well, it's a compositional decision, not just a random "Hey, let's end in major because this is how it should be!" You're the one in charge of the music you make, so you should make that decision yourself.
With all this being said, I do actually recommend playing around with the concept of cadences because they are very useful compositional tool for any kind of music that actually uses chord progressions. But instead of thinking literally of cadences as just in terms of two chords (which I think is not the right way to think about them), you should consider points in your songs, typically at the end (and sometimes middle) of your sections, as potentially "cadential" depending on what you want to do. You can even involve an augmented sixth chord into your cadential passage thus create a cadence that uses three chords given that you have a purpose that actually calls for it. You can do _much_ more with tension when you go into jazz/blues/r&b/soul based music due to how tension can be prolonged stylistically in such genres.
When it comes to classical music, cadences are conceptually much bigger thing than they are in lot of contemporary music. I'd say it might be more productive to think less about cadences and more about phrases and how you end them. If you have the I-V-vi-IV pop progression looping thorough the song, you are unlikely to have much in that song that would be understood as a cadence. The V-iv passage, for instance, is not an imperfect cadence there - the whole point of the progression is to just loop around.
So in contemporary pop music, from what I've found anyway, it's more common to have cadences only at the very end of the song (unless it fades out slowly, less common today). It however is by far not unheard of that you might end a phrase with a cadence of some sort - so for instance, if your song is in minor and you have a progression such as i | bVII | bVI | v, the "last pass" of this progression before your next section could have a V instead of v. So in A minor, you would do Am | G | F | Em normally, but in last pass you throw in E instead of Em. It helps to give more definition for the section as well.
The topic of resolution on the other hand is another matter and it relates to how one chord resolves to another. As Jan said above, the v-i passage of minor is considered "weak" because it lacks the leading tone. For this reason, it was common practice to make songs in minor where cadential points of the song would use a V instead of v. If you end your minor song in major tonic rather than minor one, the "picardy third", the reason for that was to have satisfying, fulfilling ending. Why do such a thing for a minor song, you might ask? Well, it's a compositional decision, not just a random "Hey, let's end in major because this is how it should be!" You're the one in charge of the music you make, so you should make that decision yourself.
With all this being said, I do actually recommend playing around with the concept of cadences because they are very useful compositional tool for any kind of music that actually uses chord progressions. But instead of thinking literally of cadences as just in terms of two chords (which I think is not the right way to think about them), you should consider points in your songs, typically at the end (and sometimes middle) of your sections, as potentially "cadential" depending on what you want to do. You can even involve an augmented sixth chord into your cadential passage thus create a cadence that uses three chords given that you have a purpose that actually calls for it. You can do _much_ more with tension when you go into jazz/blues/r&b/soul based music due to how tension can be prolonged stylistically in such genres.
