Can online synth demos be misleading?
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 345 posts since 4 Jun, 2020 from USA
I'm coming back to the synth world after a 10 year hiatus. I need a real analogue or VA synth, so I studied the manuals of the 3 candidates (Novation Peak, DSI Rev 2, and Deepmind 12D). My original impression based on reading the manuals was that in terms of sound capabilities, the Peak should be #1, the Rev 2 #2 and the DM12 #3.
After watching more than 60 online demos of those three synths and many sound sets developed by 3rd party programmers through a high quality pair of headphones at the max sound quality setting, my ranking is the DM12 as #1, the Rev 2 as #2, and the Peak as #3. Every demo of the Peak or its sound set was just .... meh for me. I liked some sounds of the Rev 2 in a few videos. Virtually every demo of the DM12 blew me away.
The frustrating thing is that it's difficult to personally test those synths at stores during this lockdown. Sure, it would be foolish of me to make a decision based only on online demos, but there should be some validity in those demos. I mean, all of them cannot be misleading or deceiving. Maybe, my brain just likes what the DM12 does. What do you think?
After watching more than 60 online demos of those three synths and many sound sets developed by 3rd party programmers through a high quality pair of headphones at the max sound quality setting, my ranking is the DM12 as #1, the Rev 2 as #2, and the Peak as #3. Every demo of the Peak or its sound set was just .... meh for me. I liked some sounds of the Rev 2 in a few videos. Virtually every demo of the DM12 blew me away.
The frustrating thing is that it's difficult to personally test those synths at stores during this lockdown. Sure, it would be foolish of me to make a decision based only on online demos, but there should be some validity in those demos. I mean, all of them cannot be misleading or deceiving. Maybe, my brain just likes what the DM12 does. What do you think?
Last edited by Chrisk-K on Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- KVRAF
- 15135 posts since 7 Sep, 2008
Do you like working at Behringer?
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 345 posts since 4 Jun, 2020 from USA
Haha. I'm not kidding. What I'm primarily looking for in an analogue / VA synth is ethereal pads / strings. Maybe, the DM12 is just better at creating those sounds.
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- KVRAF
- 15135 posts since 7 Sep, 2008
Yeah, I'm joking with you.
I think the DM12 is a vastly underated machine that's only finally now showing its true colours after people have had time to fully get into it.
Last edited by Mushy Mushy on Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I was wondering if you'd like to try Magic Mushrooms"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"
"Oooh I dont know. Sounds a bit scary"
"It's not scary. You just lose a sense of who you are and all that sh!t"
- KVRAF
- 4014 posts since 29 Jun, 2011 from USA
To answer in a general way, YouTube does alter the way things sound quite a bit, introducing aliasing and tonal change. It's just a much dirtier sound than what you'd have in real life.
Aiynzahev-sounds
Sound Designer - Soundsets for Pigments, Repro, Diva, Virus TI, Nord Lead 4, Serum, DUNE2, Spire, and others
Sound Designer - Soundsets for Pigments, Repro, Diva, Virus TI, Nord Lead 4, Serum, DUNE2, Spire, and others
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 345 posts since 4 Jun, 2020 from USA
Then, the DM12 is likely to sound even more ethereal and more beautiful in real life.
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- addled muppet weed
- 105548 posts since 26 Jan, 2003 from through the looking glass
yup, they certainly did a good job with it.Mushy Mushy wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:20 pmYeah, I'm joking with you.
I think the DM12 is a vastly underated machine that's only finally now showing its true colours after people have had time to fully get into it.
im not after a poly, but if i was this would be near the top of the list, if not the top.
the features plus price plus sound. not going to be beaten very easily.
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- KVRAF
- 3080 posts since 17 Apr, 2005 from S.E. TN
I don't buy lots of synths. Only 4 synths and an 88 key controller in the last 6 years, and don't plan on buying any more any time soon. I sent one of the synths back for refund didn't like it near as much as I thought I would.
I pay attention to online demos but in many cases I don't think demo vids are useful deciding if I will like a synth,.
Maybe demo vids are more useful in deciding if I don't think I would like a synth. But in cases where the demos don't make the thang seem un-likeable, it still seems easy to expect to like a synth more than turns out to be the case.
Guess it could fool ya both ways. Maybe there are some synths out there that I would really like if I had the thang, but the demos and demo music, demo patches annoy me and I decide I wouldn't like the synth when it is just an accident of a bunch of dumbass demos I didn't like, idiots not showing the synth in its best light. Hard to say.
For example "on paper" Yamaha MODX has so many nice features that I would probably like it but the demos show off sounds and techniques I don't care anything about. The MODX demos are so generally annoying that if I decide maybe I'll get a MODX then re-watch some of the demos, it changes my mind again.
I doubt that demo vids are typically intentionally deceptive. Maybe other folks find it different, but I can listen to someone else play some sounds and it is great, but then I sit down and play the same sounds and it doesn't sound good any more. Possibly partially because the patches don't respond to my liking, too responsive or too un-responsive to velocity, or oddities in how the voice allocation works in practice, or whatever. Just doesn't sound good when played with my style. Either have to reprogram the patches, if that will save it, or change the way I play it, which would only be worth the trouble if the synth is so good it is better than sex or whtever.
Of the 4 I bought in last 6 years, after watching lots of demos trying to decide-- Two of the synths sounded and played as good or better than I expected. One synth was lukewarm, a slight disappointment but not enough to get rid of it, and one a severe disappointment that just didn't sound near as good with me playing it, as it sounded with other folks playing it on demo vids.
I pay attention to online demos but in many cases I don't think demo vids are useful deciding if I will like a synth,.
Maybe demo vids are more useful in deciding if I don't think I would like a synth. But in cases where the demos don't make the thang seem un-likeable, it still seems easy to expect to like a synth more than turns out to be the case.
Guess it could fool ya both ways. Maybe there are some synths out there that I would really like if I had the thang, but the demos and demo music, demo patches annoy me and I decide I wouldn't like the synth when it is just an accident of a bunch of dumbass demos I didn't like, idiots not showing the synth in its best light. Hard to say.
For example "on paper" Yamaha MODX has so many nice features that I would probably like it but the demos show off sounds and techniques I don't care anything about. The MODX demos are so generally annoying that if I decide maybe I'll get a MODX then re-watch some of the demos, it changes my mind again.
I doubt that demo vids are typically intentionally deceptive. Maybe other folks find it different, but I can listen to someone else play some sounds and it is great, but then I sit down and play the same sounds and it doesn't sound good any more. Possibly partially because the patches don't respond to my liking, too responsive or too un-responsive to velocity, or oddities in how the voice allocation works in practice, or whatever. Just doesn't sound good when played with my style. Either have to reprogram the patches, if that will save it, or change the way I play it, which would only be worth the trouble if the synth is so good it is better than sex or whtever.
Of the 4 I bought in last 6 years, after watching lots of demos trying to decide-- Two of the synths sounded and played as good or better than I expected. One synth was lukewarm, a slight disappointment but not enough to get rid of it, and one a severe disappointment that just didn't sound near as good with me playing it, as it sounded with other folks playing it on demo vids.
- KVRAF
- 25307 posts since 3 Feb, 2005 from in the wilds
I've bought some synths based on expectations and/or specs even though I was not excited by online demos. In each case my impressions based on online demos ended up being the same when I played the synth in person.Chrisk-K wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:06 pm I'm coming back to the synth world after a 10 year hiatus. I need a real analogue or VA synth, so I studied the manuals of the 3 candidates (Novation Peak, DSI Rev 2, and Deepmind 12D). My impression was that in terms of sound capabilities, the Peak should be #1, the Rev 2 #2 and the DM12 #3.
After watching more than 60 online demos of those three synths and many sound sets developed by 3rd party programmers through a high quality pair of headphones at the max sound quality setting, my ranking is the DM12 as #1, the Rev 2 as #2, and the Peak as #3. Every demo of the Peak or its sound set was just .... meh for me. I liked some sounds of the Rev 2 in a few videos. Virtually every demo of the DM12 blew me away.
The frustrating thing is that it's difficult to personally test those synths at stores during this lockdown. Sure, it would be foolish of me to make a decision based only on online demos, but there should be some validity in those demos. I mean, all of them cannot be misleading or deceiving. Maybe, my brain just likes what the DM12 does. What do you think?
After spending lots of money and exploring various gear, it is my conclusion that online demos sufficiently reflect the character of the synth as to be a good guide for me. I have yet to have a case where what I found when playing the synth myself differed significantly from what I had heard online. I could have save myself considerable money if I had known that from the start, but then of course I needed those experiences to figure that out so no regrets.
The Novation Peak is one of the synths I bought that way and it just doesn't do it for me. It's a good synth, but just doesn't have the juice for me. It's boxed up waiting for me to sell it... whenever I get around to doing so.
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- KVRAF
- 35262 posts since 11 Apr, 2010 from Germany
No, never.Can online synth demos be misleading?
Just kidding, of course they can be misleading. Frankly though, if you watch a lot of them, and the recording and all that is decent enough, then you definitely can get a good picture of what a synth sounds like in the flesh.
You haven't been misled there, I'm sure.
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- KVRist
- Topic Starter
- 345 posts since 4 Jun, 2020 from USA
My first synth ever was a Yamaha DX11, and I didn't like it because it was impossible to program (at least for me). So, I hadn't been interested in Yamaha synths for a long, long time. Also, I personally thought Yamaha synths looked aesthetically unpleasing.JCJR wrote: ↑Fri Jun 05, 2020 5:55 pm
For example "on paper" Yamaha MODX has so many nice features that I would probably like it but the demos show off sounds and techniques I don't care anything about. The MODX demos are so generally annoying that if I decide maybe I'll get a MODX then re-watch some of the demos, it changes my mind again.
Anyways, I love EP's, and I've come to a conclusion that I like FM pianos more than any other EP's. So, I started looking at various soft synths for that 80's EP tone (Keyscape, FM8, FM Tines 2) but wasn't interested in the Yamaha Montage / MODX. One day I somehow watched a demo of MODX FM-X EP sounds. I was utterly blown away. I've never heard more awe-inspiring EP sounds than those in the MODX. The MODX6 is on my shopping list now although I still think it looks ugly.
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vitocorleone123 vitocorleone123 https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=333504
- KVRAF
- 1869 posts since 30 Jun, 2014 from Pacific NW
Yes, online demos can be misleading. The person playing it and how they play and what they play. The audio recording. The transcoding, decoding, playback, etc. All have an impact.
Some of the character of the synth will come through, but the nuance will not.
Some of the character of the synth will come through, but the nuance will not.
- KVRist
- 395 posts since 6 May, 2020
^ I think that is an important point to always remember. Everyone has a unique fingerprint and the way they approach a synth will vary massively. Just slight variations in touch and approach can form a completely different opinion, that's why it's a good practise to get as many demos as you can, or even better, try it for yourself if there's any way to do so.
Demos can not only be misleading, most are meant to be.
Demos can not only be misleading, most are meant to be.
Take care
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- KVRAF
- 7540 posts since 7 Aug, 2003 from San Francisco Bay Area
I have a Peak and a DM12. The Peak often sounds a bit boring to me, to be honest. I don’t love the sound of the filters. But it’s very capable, and they’ve significantly expanded the wavetables available.
The DM12 has a fairly simplistic voice architecture by comparison, being based on the Juno-106. What really carries it is the fantastic effects section. The Peak has a good solid reverb, chorus, and delay, but the DM12 has a huge number of really great sounding effects, which are an integral part of the patches. I also love the flexible envelope curve controls.
The DM12 has a fairly simplistic voice architecture by comparison, being based on the Juno-106. What really carries it is the fantastic effects section. The Peak has a good solid reverb, chorus, and delay, but the DM12 has a huge number of really great sounding effects, which are an integral part of the patches. I also love the flexible envelope curve controls.
Incomplete list of my gear: 1/8" audio input jack.
- KVRAF
- 7325 posts since 9 Jan, 2003 from Saint Louis MO
I've found cases where I really like what some other musician does with a synth (or module, or plugin, etc.) but when I actually try it, I don't like the results I get. (Or I don't like it physically, or something.) Demos can help but take them with a grain of salt.
Demos can also emphasize a particular characteristic of the gear that isn't fully representative of what it can do. For instance, most of the videos of The Harvestman Hertz Donut or Noise Engineering Manis Iteritas emphasize how noisy and nasty they can be... and completely bypass the more beautiful things they can both do; on the opposite end, most videos with Mutable Instruments Rings have it doing plinky guitar/mallet stuff instead of using it as a resonator and letting its freak flag fly.
Even trying something for a while yourself is no guarantee it's going to really work out for you. And similarly, sometimes a few minutes with a piece of gear isn't really enough to find the sweet spots or appreciate it fully.
Demos can also emphasize a particular characteristic of the gear that isn't fully representative of what it can do. For instance, most of the videos of The Harvestman Hertz Donut or Noise Engineering Manis Iteritas emphasize how noisy and nasty they can be... and completely bypass the more beautiful things they can both do; on the opposite end, most videos with Mutable Instruments Rings have it doing plinky guitar/mallet stuff instead of using it as a resonator and letting its freak flag fly.
Even trying something for a while yourself is no guarantee it's going to really work out for you. And similarly, sometimes a few minutes with a piece of gear isn't really enough to find the sweet spots or appreciate it fully.