Should I buy VPS Avenger, or should I wait for VPS Avenger 2 and a better copy protection?

[Blaster]

It has been mentioned in other forums where people discuss problems with Avenger’s code meter. I think why Reason hasn’t been criticized:
1. The code meter doesn’t affect the program to be unstable
2. With Reason the reactivating is easy (or it goes on the background so you don’t need to worry about it)
3. The customer support of Reason is good, where VPS Avenger’s support has been criticized
4. VPS Avenger changed their copy protection system suddenly (and some people are angry about that, and some people are angry since after this their synth started to be unstable etc etc)

Just what I have gathered from people’s comments & experiences. So maybe those things all together

1. That's impossible to tell, could be anything else in an update that's causing instability...
2. Yep, if Avenger did that there wouldn't be less issues. They should be doing this in a coming update.
3. There's topics here on KVR saying Reason support is bad as well. All support is bad if you look for it
4. They changed it because it was hurting their business. Other option would be to discontinue developing Avenger 1. Which would be the lesser evil?

[SirkusPi]

It has been mentioned in other forums where people discuss problems with Avenger’s code meter. I think why Reason hasn’t been criticized:
...
4. VPS Avenger changed their copy protection system suddenly (and some people are angry about that, and some people are angry since after this their synth started to be unstable etc etc)

4. They changed it because it was hurting their business. Other option would be to discontinue developing Avenger 1. Which would be the lesser evil?

The fair approach would be to offer everyone who purchased Avenger before the switchover, and whose purchase (like mine) was based on VPS' express promise of a keyfile protection system, a refund of the purchase price for a synth that is now dead to us (in that we can never update or get bugfixes without compromising our systems with CodeMeter).

In return, obviously I would surrender my license. I just want my money back and to be done with this company altogether.

Heck, I'd even take a modest annual reduction of the refund from the purchase price to account for the time I could use it.

[kenny saunders]

It has been mentioned in other forums where people discuss problems with Avenger’s code meter. I think why Reason hasn’t been criticized:
...
4. VPS Avenger changed their copy protection system suddenly (and some people are angry about that, and some people are angry since after this their synth started to be unstable etc etc)

4. They changed it because it was hurting their business. Other option would be to discontinue developing Avenger 1. Which would be the lesser evil?

The fair approach would be to offer everyone who purchased Avenger before the switchover, and whose purchase (like mine) was based on VPS' express promise of a keyfile protection system, a refund of the purchase price for a synth that is now dead to us (in that we can never update or get bugfixes without compromising our systems with CodeMeter).

In return, obviously I would surrender my license. I just want my money back and to be done with this company altogether.

Heck, I'd even take a modest annual reduction of the refund from the purchase price to account for the time I could use it.

I thought you can still use the pre-codemeter version (1.5). Is that not true?

[SirkusPi]

I can still use the pre-CodeMeter version, but I cannot update for new features or, perhaps more important, get bug fixes. Because I can still use v1.4, I do not think I would have a legal claim, as I’ve said many times. But I think VPS’ bait-and-switch is ethically extremely shady. I spent a lot of money to join a synth ecosystem that I was told used a keyfile protection system, only to have them unilaterally change that on me and strand me at v1.4 forever. I just want out.

[ansolas]

compromising our systems with CodeMeter...

Thats sounds if CodeMeter is affecting the system. I havent seen any evidence that it use much system resources at all nor does it collect data and spy the enduser for what ever reason.

If I am wrong proove it, please. Codemeter takes 0% CPU and 3.9 MB RAM here on my system.

I spent a lot of money to join a synth ecosystem that I was told used a keyfile protection system

Totally understand that, but what again is the downside of running CodeMeter besides the mandatory 3 month re-activation ?

[deastman]

I can still use the pre-CodeMeter version, but I cannot update for new features or, perhaps more important, get bug fixes. Because I can still use v1.4, I do not think I would have a legal claim, as I’ve said many times. But I think VPS’ bait-and-switch is ethically extremely shady. I spent a lot of money to join a synth ecosystem that I was told used a keyfile protection system, only to have them unilaterally change that on me and strand me at v1.4 forever. I just want out.

Caveat emptor. Avenger used a keyfile system when you bought it. Same here (1.0). That don’t mean they promise to stick with a keyfile System for all eternity. Obviously they were losing too much money and had to move to a stronger protection system. I’d prefer this over them discontinuing the product or going out of business, either of which would have rendered your initial investment worthless in the long term. Furthermore, they are a small company, and unlikely to have piles of cash lying around to refund all the disgruntled customers when they moved to codemeter, especially if they were already losing sales. I don’t like any form of copy protection, but I accept it as a necessary evil in today’s world. The product is still good, as is Reason, which I also use, along with iLok and elicenser protected products.

[SirkusPi]

compromising our systems with CodeMeter...

Thats sounds if CodeMeter is affecting the system. I havent seen any evidence that it use much system resources at all nor does it collect data and spy the enduser for what ever reason.

If I am wrong proove it, please. Codemeter takes 0% CPU and 3.9 MB RAM here on my system.

I disagree that it's my burden to prove anything, other than that (1) VPS specifically advertised a feature (keyfile protection), and (2) VPS took away that feature when it came to be in their best interests to do so. I don't wan't to install CodeMeter, period. I don't want superfluous tasks running on my computer, period. VPS took away a feature that very much matters to me and that I relied on in making my purchase. Or is it your position that developers can take away features any time they have reason to, as long as some people feel it's not important?

Again, to be clear, I don't think I have a legal claim. But I do think it is unethical behavior.

I can still use the pre-CodeMeter version, but I cannot update for new features or, perhaps more important, get bug fixes. Because I can still use v1.4, I do not think I would have a legal claim, as I’ve said many times. But I think VPS’ bait-and-switch is ethically extremely shady. I spent a lot of money to join a synth ecosystem that I was told used a keyfile protection system, only to have them unilaterally change that on me and strand me at v1.4 forever. I just want out.

Caveat emptor. Avenger used a keyfile system when you bought it. Same here (1.0). That don’t mean they promise to stick with a keyfile System for all eternity. Obviously they were losing too much money and had to move to a stronger protection system. I’d prefer this over them discontinuing the product or going out of business, either of which would have rendered your initial investment worthless in the long term. Furthermore, they are a small company, and unlikely to have piles of cash lying around to refund all the disgruntled customers when they moved to codemeter, especially if they were already losing sales. I don’t like any form of copy protection, but I accept it as a necessary evil in today’s world. The product is still good, as is Reason, which I also use, along with iLok and elicenser protected products.

I agree that, at the end of the day, "caveat emptor" is the guiding principle. (I don't realistically expect them to refund my money, as much as I'd like them to.) And that's fundamentally all I'm trying to do. I want future potential purchasers to know the following:

VPS is the kind of company that will specifically advertise a keyfile protection system (among many, many other features) in order to attract buyers, but then will unilaterally impose CodeMeter for future updates and bugfixes if that keyfile system is broken by pirates, without refunding any money to previous purchasers who relied on the specific keyfile feature but who do not want to install CodeMeter.

Can we agree that is factually accurate? At this point, some potential buyers (who share your view) can say "So what? Seems reasonable to me," and go ahead and make their purchase. So be it. Others (who share my view) can say "Wow, that's not a company I'd want to give money to." In other words, the buyer can beware or purchase. I just think it's fair for everyone to know the undisputed practices of who they're dealing with.

Also, like you, I use eLicenser and iLok. I chose to install them when I saw that products I wanted to buy (but hadn't yet) required them from the start (to my knowledge). That free choice is very different from being commanded to install CodeMeter after a purchase. I would object to any company that did that with regard to iLok and eLicenser too, even though I own them, because such "changing of horses midstream" shouldn't be done, period.

[Tannaliini]

I don’t quite understand why the VPS Avenger needed to start using code meter - even when they were advertising they are using something else - but then some plugins (like Serum & Ana2 if I am not mistaken) don’t need that type of protection?

[MadDogE134]

not my place to say what you should or shouldn't do as per your investment but that company will never get another penny from me. if you have to deal with the public but don't know how to effectively deal with the public you shouldn't be in business in the first place. many have learned an expensive lesson from that company's open arrogance. as the saying goes... fool me once shame on you... fool me twice shame on me.

[wombat778]

VPS took away a feature that very much matters to me and that I relied on in making my purchase. Or is it your position that developers can take away features any time they have reason to, as long as some people feel it's not important?

I think that as long as I can still use the prior version, yes, of course developers can take away features in a future version. For example, new versions of IOS or Windows regularly remove features and change things as compared with prior versions. Imagine the awful software bloat that would happen if all software had to carry all legacy features and options from prior versions. As I always buy software based on whether I am happy with it NOW, not based on what it could become in a future version, removal of features is not a problem so long as I can continue with the prior version if I want.

[Gregorius]

Just adding that Avenger codemeter dongle activation still requires to revalidate which is pretty unique and tells a lot...

[starflakeprj]

I don’t quite understand why the VPS Avenger needed to start using code meter - even when they were advertising they are using something else - but then some plugins (like Serum & Ana2 if I am not mistaken) don’t need that type of protection?

You can't compare different developers with each other when you don't know anything about their sales numbers. Serum has a position, together with a few other plugins, "on top of the world", meaning they are gaining from people using their cracked plugins showing them off on YouTube.

Take for instance when Avicii and Martin Garrix was "caught" using the cracked (I think it was) Nexus 2 (but could have been Sylenth1 as well). The best promotion you can get, more or less for free. Same thing with Kayne West, where some leaked screenshots suggested he had downloaded Serum from The Pirate Bay.

Before this happened, all these plugins already were highly credited, but afterwards they reached even higher.

When Avenger was cracked (2019?) it hadn't reached that status. Instead a bunch of idiots/rascals/scoundrels/lowlives spread it across a site where people loves getting things for free. Maybe VPS took a too hasty decision, but I'm sure they suffered from loss of sales during the period before they chose CodeMeter for their protection, and they didn't dare taking the risk not moving to CM.

If they would have reached the same status as Serum and the others, including the worlds most pirated DAW (FL Studio), the future for Avenger might have looked different. But we will never know this, will we?

As a man who hates piracy (talking about myself now), and dislike people downloading software illegally, I fully support VPS decision going for the anti-piracy solution that CodeMeter is bringing (if implemented correctly). I do feel sorry for the people having problems though, but I'm sure most people nagging about Avenger using CodeMeter does it not because they have problems, but because of ideologic reasons, and this I think is ridocilous.

[zvenx]

Just adding that Avenger codemeter dongle activation still requires to revalidate which is pretty unique and tells a lot...

That is my issue with it right there...... I really don't think it uses much resources, but that you have to renew every 90 days. (and yes even stranger that the dongle needs re authentication). brings up two issues.

I have to manually do it. which they are say they are working on.

The developer is free at their own whim to not renew your license.....which means all the work you have done with it or wip, unless you have turned them into audio tracks, can't be used again as is.

rsp

[dreamvoid]

As a man who hates piracy (talking about myself now), and dislike people downloading software illegally, I fully support VPS decision going for the anti-piracy solution that CodeMeter is bringing (if implemented correctly). I do feel sorry for the people having problems though, but I'm sure most people nagging about Avenger using CodeMeter does it not because they have problems, but because of ideologic reasons, and this I think is ridocilous.

In my case the re-authorising necessity every 90 days crossed a Red Line so to say, together with the totally ignorant and arrogant reaction by the makers, who act like revenge seeking teenagers against the wrong people. CodeMeter is fiddly sometimes, but CodeMeter stuff runs in my studio without problems for years. It is solely the fact that I, as a legal customer, don't want to being dragged thru to many issues with copy protection and having dongles treated like a subscription thingy.
The necessity for copy protection is no problem at all and I support this generally. I have a two digit number of dongles in service here on several computers (with three CodeMeter dongles).
I'm especially miffed, because Avenger is a great sound design environment, but what goes to far ...

[wombat778]

In my case the re-authorising necessity every 90 days crossed a Red Line so to say

While it’s not a red line for me, I do agree that the requirement to reauthorize every 90 days is really lame and optically comes across as unprofessional (even if in practice it’s not too burdensome). I think VPS should try to resolve that as a matter of urgency.